Loerner had nothing to do with the feeding of these inmates.
Q Do you deny in June 1946 you gave this answer to this question: "Who was responsible in your office for the reduction of daily rations in Mauthausen towards the end of the war?
"Answer: The whole feeding program was under the jurisdiction of Loerner in Amt Group B, since the whole matter of billeting, clothing, and feeding was under the jurisdiction of Loerner."
Is that a mistake also?
A What I said in 1946, that is, a few weeks after my arrest, I can no longer uphold. I corrected that point in affidavits which I wrote later on, because according to my recollection - my recollection was not as fresh as it is today. In this affidavit of the 13th of March, 1947, I have changed the statements to that effect, as I have just read it now, and I shall stick to my last statement, because that is correct.
THE PRESIDENT: Witness, who did have charge of the feeding, if Loerner did not. Don't tell me the Reich Food Ministry. Who brought the groceries right into the concentration camp?
WITNESS: The administrative leaders of the concentration camp, who were the competent and responsible persons for that matter. They brought the groceries. They administered them and used them up.
THE PRESIDENT: And where did they get them? Where did they get the food?
WITNESS: From the deliverers who had been prescribed to them by the Food Departments. I already mentioned that before, Your Honor, when the Administrative Offices in the concentration camp on the basis of their personal strength they had to try for groceries with the competent food office. They would requisition them and that particular food office then told them who they had to go to see.
THE PRESIDENT: Who was in charge of the food office?
WITNESS: They were private grocery stores. They had to buy them from private firms, not from a food office. There were no special food offices, but the administrative leader in the concentration camp bought this food from private supplies in town.
THE PRESIDENT: Who made the contract with private wholesalers, the private food supply?
WITNESS: I know nothing of that, they had contracts with these food offices, they did not buy from the same deliverers all the time. The food office provided those food dealers which were in a position to deliver, in other words, had enough provisions. As a procedure, it did not touch the WVHA at all, it could not touch the WVHA, because it covered the entire area of the Reich.
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute, now. A camp commander at Nordhausen, wants a thousand pounds of beans. Whom does he ask for the beans?
WITNESS: He would send the administrative leader to the food office, which was possibly in Linzand that food office gave him a requisition slip for those thousand pounds of beans.
THE PRESIDENT: All right. Now what I am trying to find out is with whom the food office was connected, was that part of the WVHA?
A. Oh, no, the Food Office was not part of the WVHA. It was a subordinated agency.
Q. Subordination to what?
A. Your Honor, of the Riech Food Administration. In other words, it was entirely different, the channel was entirely different.
Q. All right.
A. After all the Food Office was not a part of the WVHA.
Q. Well, what you mean to say, then, that no part of the WVHA had anything to do with supplying food to the camps?
A. We could not do that.
Q. But that is a fact, is it?
A. That is the fact. Inspite of that I did it without being permitted to do so in order to help these people in their emergency by simply taking Army food, taking it out of the Army stock and transferring it to the concentration camp, but I was violating my regulations, otherwise, I would not be permitted to do so. Of course I found no other way to help myself to do so, if I ever heard there was an emergency some place.
Q. That is not what you testified to in June 1936 when you were asked about the food, and the persons who were responsible for providing food in the concentration camps, is it?
THE PRESIDENT: I think you misspoke the date, Mr. Robbins.
MR. ROBBINS: 1946.
THE WITNESS: Yes, that is correct. I admit that because shortly after my arrest I was asked many, many things which I answered, or which I did not answer correctly, or exactly, because there were a lot of things to answer; those things became more clearer, however, in the course of years, and in my last affidavits I made certain rectifications. I had to rectifications. I had to rectify several things, namely, because they were not very clear to me about a year ago.
BY MR. ROBBINS:
Q. Did any one during the period from 1946 until the date of the trial ask you to change your testimony on that subject?
A. Well, I was interrogated about several of these questions again in March or April, and, of course, many things came back to my memory, and were clearer. They were clearer then than they were about nine months ago. I was never asked to change my statements. However, I did it so far as it concerned the same things I was asked about.
Q. Were things clearer to you on 1 April 1947 when you signed the first affidavit that I showed you, No. 2616. Now I shall ask you to turn to paragraph eight of that affidavit where you state, "It was the responsibility of Loerner to insure the provision of clothing and nourishment to the concentration camp inmates," or, did you have a lapse of memory when you signed this affidavit about him there in paragraph eight?
A. Yes, what I said here as shown is correct, and I said that during the statement which I made before. So far as the concentration camps was concerned, and providing them with clothing, I explained, namely, what that task was, and what the responsibilities were. I have nothing to add to this.
Q. The statement contained in paragraph 8 that you have just read is correct, is that true?
DR. MUELLER-TORGAU: Dr. Mueller-Torgau for the defendant Georg Loerner. Mr. Prosecutor just said so far as Document NO-2616 is concerned, paragraph 8, showing that was part of Georg Loerner's task, I would like to state the defendant Pohl had already testified to that figure, to the carrying out of Georg Loerner's task of supplying the concentration camp inmates with clothing. It said nothing about food in here.
Q. This affidavit says -
THE PRESIDENT: Is this the affidavit in which the witness said he struck out the words, "And food"?
MR. ROBBINS: No, that is 2616, paragraph 8, where it said that it was the responsibility of Loerner to insure the provisions of clothing and nourishment to concentration camp inmates.
THE WITNESS: It does not say "food" here also.
THE PRESIDENT: We are talking about two different affairs. Which was the other one in which he said he struck out the words "And food." That was 2736, I think.
MR. ROBBINS: I think Your Honor, that is the affidavit.
DR. SEIDL: Dr. Seidl for the defendant Oswald Pohl.
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute. It says in paragraph 18 of Document 2736 - is that the affidavit in which you say you struck out the words "with food" before you signed?
THE WITNESS: No. I only raised that particular passage in Document NO-2570, 2-5-7-0 in paragraph 19 of the document. I struck out the word "food" there, and that, Your Honor, also is correct in the statement NO-2736, because in there I spoke of "clothing, food and billeting" of all the inmates of Waffen-SS, however, not of the concentration camps. That can be seen in one particular sentence. Furthermore, he was also responsible for providing inmates with clothing. Here also they are not speaking of food, and this applies to three affidavits which I had signed.
MR. ROBBINS: Your Honor, may we take a recess so I can examine the affidavit which the defendant has in his hands.
THE PRESIDENT: It is time anyway.
(Recess)
THE MARSHAL: Tribunal No. 2 is again in session.
MR. ROBBINS: I think before going further I had better mark the documents which I have referred to for identification, to be offered later.
The first document which I referred to was the letter of Pohl's which sets out the organization of the Verwaltungsamt, dated 1 October 1935. This is Document NO-2616 which will be Prosecution Exhibit 523 for identification. The third is NO-2570, an affidavit of Pohl's which will be Exhibit 524 for identification. And the third affidavit of Pohl's which I referred to is NO-2736 which will be 525 for identification.
Did you have something, Dr. Seidl?
DR. SEIDL: (Counsel for the Defendant Oswald Pohl) Your Honor, the Prosecution has just submitted NO2616 in evidence.
During the recess we have been able to look at the translation of this affidavit, and examine it. And, in checking the translation, we saw a big mistake in the translation. In Paragraph 8 of the Document NO-2616, the German text in the original of the affidavit, states: "It was part of Loerner's responsibility to secure the supply of the inmates of the concentration camps with clothing." In the English translation of this document, an addition was made which was not contained in the original document. Here it is stated "the provision of clothing and nourishment." The word "nourishment" is not contained in the original document, and I therefore ask that it be stricken from the record.
MR. ROBBINS: Dr. Seidl is correct. Apparently the translator translated the word provision as meaning "nourishment." At any rate, the words "and nourishment" should be stricken out of Paragraph 8, on NO-2616.
NO-2570, which is also an affidavit of Pohl, which is Exhibit 524 for identification, is correct as it is in English, that is, that Goerg Loerner was in charge of clothing provided to concentration camp prisoners. Also, the third affidavit, which is NO-2736, Exhibit 525 for identification, is also correct, and there Pohl states --
THE PRESIDENT: Paragraph 18?
MR. ROBBINS: Yes, Paragraph 18. "It was the responsibility of Gruppenfuehrer Goerg Loerner, Chief of Amtsgruppe B, to provide all units of the Waffen SS and where necessary also the General SS with food and accomodation. He was also responsible for providing the inmates with clothing. In some cases he also put food supplies at the disposal of the concentration camps from Waffen SS stocks."
In Paragraph 19, "Because I was greatly interested in keeping inmates alive, so as to maintain as large a labor source as possible, I frequently conferred with Loerner to be assured that the inmates were properly fed and clothed." That is as it stands in the original German which was signed by Pohl.
BY MR. ROBBINS:
Q. It is true, is it not, as you state in Paragraph 18 of the affidavit which I have just referred to, the Loerner in some cases put food supplies at the disposal of the concentration camps? Is that correct?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. And You as Chief of the WVHA had responsibility to see that the inmates were fed; is that correct?
A. Within the framework of my activity as Chief of the WVHA, within the possibilities that existed, and which I did not personally determine. Of course, as far as I had a personal influence on it; as far as I had influence on the matter.
Q. But as far as you could arrange to feed the inmates, it was your responsibility to see that they were fed?
A. I did more than I had to do and than I was able to do.
Q. What person in the WVHA assisted you in performing that task?
A. With regard to food?
Q. Yes.
A. With regard to food there was no work to be done in the WVHA because all the work concerning food was carried out at the lowest level. Purchase, control and preparation of the food; and the WVHA did not have to perform any work in that respect. Indeed, as to responsibility for that, I have already described that, just how the process worked. We could not increase the food rations as we would have liked to; and therefore we could not even collaborate with this lower level. The responsible persons on the lower eschelon, the lower level, on their part were also carrying through the orders which came from the Reich Food Ministry. There was no room left for any individual and free activity. We had to take care that whatever we had at our dispersal --
Q. Excuse me, you say that you had to utilize the food that was put at your disposal. Who assisted you in the utilization of that food for the inmates?
A. Who?
Q. You say in your affidavit that in some cases Loerner did that and you just said on the stand that is correct.
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. Tschentschner also helped you in that respect, did he not?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. In order to get a clearer picture of the development of this organization and the responsibility of each of the offices in the WVHA as they developed from the early organization, I think it is necessary to go back to the first exhibit which I showed you this morning, which is Exhibit 522 for identification, NO-5747.
THE PRESIDENT:NO-1574.
MR. ROBBINS: I'm sorry, it is NO-1574.
Q. You have told us, referring to Paragraph II, that the Main Department V-I was either in 1935 or in 1936 under the defendant Frank. Is that correct?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. The defendant Frank was also your deputy, was he not, in the Verwaltungsamt?
A. I cannot recall that in detail. However, I believe it was Faist whom I have mentioned previously. In my opinion he had a higher rank and he was much older. However, he left the office later on. Frank at that time had a comparatively low rank. However, I cannot say that exactly. I consider it improbable that Frank was my deputy at that time.
Q. Well, some time during the period 1935 to 1938, during which the Verwaltungsamt was in existence, that is, the administrative office, Frank was your deputy, was he not?
A. Yes, later on he became my deputy.
Q. Referring to sub-paragraph 3, Main Department Accounting, do you recall who was in charge of that?
A. I don't remember that any more. I can't remember who it was. I only know that Faist and Weber, two older leaders, occupied top positions at that time. They were senior men. But I cannot remember of what main departments they were in charge. It may be that Faist, whom I have previously mentioned, had Department V-2. However, I cannot remember that exactly.
Q. Referring to Main Department V-3, Clothing and Equipment, Georg Loerner was in charge of this, was he not?
A. Yes, Loerner must have occupied that position as early as that time.
Q. What were Goerg Loerner's duties as head of the Main Department V-3?
A. First of all, and perhaps this was the most important, he took care of the clothing and equipment of the Verfuegungstruppe, the Special Task Group, as far as it existed at that time. The clothing of the Allgemeine SS, the General SS, was carried out by the Party through the Reich Quartermaster agency; and there was not much administrative work to be carried out in that respect.
The clothing office at that time was about to be established. That was the pay office for clothing; and it did not have any particular importance. Its main work consisted of the procurement of uniforms for the Special Task units. It had to determine the requirements. They had to ascertain the necessary funds; and they had to include these sums into the budget. Then they had to secure the delivery in agreement with agencies of the army. That was the primary part of their work; that was the main part of the work of Main Department V-3.
Q. He had to obtain the clothing and equipment for the SS Special Duty troops, the VT?
A. Yes. Yes, first of all, clothing.
Q. And clothing and equipment for the SS Death-Head units? Is that correct; the so called TV?
A. Yes. They wore a different type of uniform at that time. I believe Eicke followed his own ways in that respect also. The uniforms did not even have the same color as the uniforms of the Special Duty units. As far as I can remember, he had these uniforms made specially with the approval of Himmler. These uniforms were different as to their color and --
Q. Excuse me. He also had the duties of obtaining clothing and equipment for the Allgemeine SS; is that correct?
A. No. I have already pointed out that this was procured by the Reich Quartermaster Agency, which was an agency of the Party. It was requested by the agencies of the Reich directly. They had to be requested by the highest Reich authorities. These were the so-called Oberabschnitte, the higher sectors. They requested the uniforms for the General SS directly from the Reich Ordnance Officer. We had nothing to do with it.
Q And you state that Georg Loerner as an official of the Verwaltungsamt obtaining clothing for the General or Allgemeine SS?
A I have already described it in such a way as I still remember. We were not part.
Q Excuse me, just answer the question, yes or no. You say, you did not have anything to do with clothing the Allgemeine SS?
A The delivery was carried out by the Reich Ordnance Agencies as far as I can remember. I don't know in which respect Loerner is supposed to have worked. I don't know if the orders were routed through his office; that is possible, but I don't know that exactly. I know for certain they were furnished by the Reich Quartermaster.
Q But it is possible that they were routed through your office V-3 of the Verwaltungsamt?
A That is possible to say.
Q Is it also possible that the clothing for the concentration camp inmates were routed through Office V-3?
A Later on, when they became Death Head Units, then they came within the large sphere of supplies, but how it was in the years 1934 and and 1935, I cannot tell you any more exactly. I only know that at that time these units wore a completely different type of uniform.
Q Excuse me, I am not talking about the Death Head units or the concentration camp guards. I am talking about the clothing for the inmates which was handled by the Verwaltungsamt.
A No, the administrative office had nothing to do with it.
Q You stated that Office V-3 in the Verwaltungsamt had nothing whatever to do with clothing for inmates.
A Up to now we were talking about the furnishing of uniforms. Now, you are talking about the clothing for inmates. I cannot remember that at the time we took care of providing the inmates with clothing. I do not think so.
Q Is it not possible that the clothing for the inmates was routed through V-3?
A No, I don't think so. At the time, that is to say, before the war, we still had sufficient clothing on hand and raw materials, so I cannot even imagine what work we could have done in that respect. I believe that this clothing was furnished directly by the camp administration. However, I cannot exactly recall that.
Q During the years 1935 to 1938, during the existence of the Verwaltungsamt, you did audit the expenses of the concentration camps and the books of the camps, is that correct?
A Yes, well, we compiled the budget. I cannot tell you today if the auditing was carried out by us or by the Reich Auditing Court. I am not so well informed any more and I am not certain any more about those things. It was a time when things changed frequently and I cannot testify as to such with 100% certainty. I have already stated that from 1936 on we included the budget of the death head units and the concentration camps into the Reich Budge which we represented. That is correct. Until 1936 it was represented by Eicke himself with the provincial government in whose district the concentration camp was located.
Q It was even 1936, wasn't it, referring to the document which is before you, it was at least as early as 1935, auditing of books of the concentration camps, referring to Roman Numeral I, subparagraph 5c?
A Well, I don't know exactly who carried out the auditing work.
Q You were chief of the Administration of the SS at that time, were you not? That is shown by the letter.
A Yes. I held that position, I believe, until April 1936, all the budget matters were handled personally by Eicke with the provincial governments. And in his staff of each provincial government he had a financial expert who, as far as I know also carried out the auditing work. We only set up our examining apparatus for acute tasks after 1936 when Vogt entered the office, and I cannot remember the men who worked for him.
Q Excuse me. I am not asking you for the men who worked for you. During this period from '36 to '38, when you were checking the books of the SS, is it not true that under the SS the concentration camps Sachsenhausen, Buchenwald, Flossenbuerg, Ravensbrueck, and Mauthausen were constructed?
A Yes, these camps were established in those years, between 1936 and 1942.
Q You checked on the expenses for the construction of these camps, did you not?
A Yes, they were included in the Reich budget.
Q And didn't Department V-4, building matters, construction matters, advise you in the checking of these figures?
AAt that time they had nothing to do with this construction. I said that until he left the office, Eicke had his own construction organization. Until that time V-4 had nothing to do with the construction of concentration camps.
Q You had something to do with it. You checked the accounts for the construction of the camps? You have just stated that.
A No, from 1936 we included the budget within the Reich Budget. In the auditing of the bills as far as I can recall, it was carried out at that time by the Reich Auditing Court.
Q Will you look at paragraph 5c under auditing office, where SS Troops for Special Tasks, Administrative Office, Administrative Office of Concentration Camps, doesn't that indicate that you as Administrative Chief of the SS in charge of the auditing office for special troops for special tasks also audited the books for the concentration camps, including the expenses for the construction?
A This can only involve the personal expenses, while the expenses arising out of the construction are not included. The construction expenses at that time did not originate with us, but with the Reich Construction Administration and the Reich Construction Administration would not have allowed us to audit them. I have already repeatedly pointed out that competent for all the construction of the special task units and the concentration camps until the year 1940 or 1941 was the Reich Construction Administration. That was the Reich Ministry of the Interior should have let itself be audited by a lower agency as the SS WVHA was with respect to the expenses arising out of construction work.
Q You stated that this simply refers to personnel expenses. What do you mean by that?
A Well, I am referring to payments, well, these administrative payments, salaries, expenses for trips, and other personal allowances.
Q That includes the salaries for the Death Head Units, who guarded the concentration camps?
A Yes.
Q Then in 1939 that office was reorganized and became a main office, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q I show you Document NO-620, which is in Document Book 2, which is a chart of this main office. What was the new office which was organized out of the Verwaltungsamt called?
A It was called Main Office, Construction and Administration, and Main Office of Budget and Economy.
Q You were the chief of this office?
A Yes.
Q Who was in charge of Amt I, and what were its functions?
AAmt I was subordinated to the then Oberfuehrer Loerner, Loerner, Georg.
Q And this later became Amtsgruppe A of the WVHA, did it not?
A Yes, this Amt I, later on became Amtsgruppe A and B; both offices were developed from this Amt I.
Q You refer to Office I, which was under -
A Well, the main Department I-1, I-2, later on developed into Amtsgruppe A, the Main Department I 3, I 4, I 6, and I A, later on, developed into Amtsgruppe B.
Q Are you referring to Amt I-5 which was under Burger, and was called "Prison Labor." Will you tell us what were the functions of that subdivision?
AAmt I-5 was to do with the regulation of allocation of labor, and the procurement of prisoners for Economic Enterprises. However, this work from Berlin did not function very smoothly, and this main department Amt I-5 was already removed from this main office after 2 or 3 months and turned over to the Inspectorate of concentration camps.
Q You say after two or three months. Do you remember the date?
A No, I can not give you the exact date any more.
Q Do you remember the year?
A Well, it was in '39 when this main office was established. The Main Office was established in February 1939. I assume that in April 1939 this main department was already removed from this organization because it did not function at all from Berlin.
Q Before we go into the date on which it was dissolved, will you tell us what the functions of this prison labor department were as to the date of 1939?
THE PRESIDENT: Where did you find the reference to "Prison Labor"?
MR. ROBBINS: It is in Document 620, Your Honor, the chart.
THE PRESIDENT: The chart submitted?
MR. ROBBINS: No, it is the chart of the construction and building Main Office, and the Administration and Economics. This was the office that was organized out of the Administrative Office in 1939. Will you tell us what the Prison Labor Office in your Main Office had to do?
THE WITNESS: This main department, I-5, was to regulate the procurement of prisoners for the Economic Enterprises, which at that time were subordinated to the supervision of the Main Office. It had no other tasks. This concerned enterprises which were located at Dachau, and which slowly developed in all the other camps. It was to regulate the use of prisoners in these plants, that was the task of the main department I-5.
Q You already told us that there were Economic Enterprises, or workshops in the concentration camps before 1939, as early as 1935 or '36, is that correct?
A Yes, these workshops, however, were subordinated directly and solely to the camp commandants.
Q And Office I-5 allocated the prison labor to the SS Industries?
A SS Industries did not yet exist at that time.
Q That is the Economic Enterprises or workshops?
A They were Economic Enterprises which existed at Dachau in 1939 or '38, rather, and they were located there for the DEST, which had been founded in 1938, that is the allocation of labor also in this respect. In the Spring of 1939 at the establishment of this main department I-5, the Economic Enterprises at Dachau and the DEST which was founded in 1938, were combined. It was to direct the allocation of prisoners, for these Enterprises too.
Q And as early as 1938 some of the industries or workshops in the concentration camps were put under your supervision?
A Yes. I already stated it was only the Economic Enterprises at Dachau which were placed in 1938 approximately under my supervision.
Q Who in the Administrative Office, or the Verwaltungsamt in 1938 helped you administer these workshops?
A In the beginning I did all the work by myself. In 1938 I did not have any collaborator in the Administrative Office and later on in the Main Office; my collaborators were the plant managers outside, where the plants were located.
Q In 1939 who in the Construction and Building Main Office, and Administration and Economic Main Office assisted you in administering these enterprises?
A Well, in 1939, in February '39 the work in these Main Offices was divided into certain fields. That was in Amt III-A, Salpeter, then in III-B, Moerkl; then in III-C Maurer, and in III-D Vogel, and then the Special Enterprises under Klein.
Q That is the defendant Klein?
A Yes.
Q And that was in 1939?
A In February 1939.
Q And who was in charge of III-A-1, which was the DEST, in 1939?
A It was then Sturmbannfuehrer Mummenthey.
Q And who was in charge of III-A-3, the Building Department, or, which was in charge of obtaining buildings?
A No. III-A-3 was the Public Hamestead and Settlement Limited, and Mummenthey was manager of that temporarily.
Q Will you refer to Office II-C which is concentration camps and police, and will you tell us what were the functions of that office?
A II-C?
Q Yes?
A Well, so far as I can recall this Main Department dealt with all matters. This was the Main Department 2-C, and it may be that in 1939, as I have already said, the building organization of Eicke was turned over to the WVHA, and this was the agency which since 1939 had occupied itself with the construction of concentration camps and police barracks. However, I can not remember that any more today.
Q The chart shows that Amt II-C was in charge of construction of concentration camps and barracks, does it not?
A Yes, it shows that. I believe in 1939 the construction agency of Eicke was dissolved. However, I can not give the exact date.
Q From that time on you were in charge of the construction of the concentration camps?
A Yes, I was personally in charge of Office II for some time because no suitable leader could be found, from 1941 and '42. Finally in 1941 Kammler came.
Q And when the WVHA was organized, Amtsgruppe-C was put in charge of the construction of camps, is that correct?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q And last week you were asked in regard to the construction of concentration camps, and what were the duties of the defendant Eirenschmalz. Counsel for Eirenschmalz asked the following question: "Witness, earlier this morning you spoke about the construction of gas chambers, but I am of the opinion together with my client that this question must be cleared once and forever, and in the interest of my client now. I ask you first, did Amt C-6, which was under Eirenschmalz carry out planning and establishment of prisoner-of-war camps, concentration camps, gas chambers, or crematories?
AAmt C-6 had nothing to do with planning or establishment.
Q In other words, nothing at all?
A No.
Q We would like to know now for sure who was in charge of the construction. I shall ask you again, did Amt C-6 have anything to do with this?
A I answer that Amt C-6 had nothing to do with this.
Q Is there anything you wish to add to that testimony today?
A No.
Q You do not wish to change it in any respect?
AAmts C-6, as I have already stated to the best of my recollection, had nothing to do with planning and construction.
Q Did it have anything at all to do with the checking of the construction of concentration camps?
A It was primarily a checking agency for constructions. It had to check the bills in agreement with the Reich Auditing Court, that was its principal task.
Q And that included concentration camps?
A Yes. I believe that this was the case, that they were checked too, later on.
Q And it included gas chambers and crematories?
A So far as the bills were presented and submitted, yes.
Q And they had to give their approval for the construction?
A No, Amt C-6 had nothing whatsoever to do with that, because the bills were only submitted for examination after the construction had already taken place; but I do not know even today whether these constructions like gas chambers and crematoria were planned by Amtsgruppe C by some subordinate agency, or some other one unknown to me. Even today I don't know that.
Q Will you look at your affidavit which you were reading this morning which is NO-2616, Exhibit 523 for identification, and refer to Paragraph 16.
A I beg your pardon, I don't have it here.
(The witness was given the affidavit.)
Q It states: "I remember that the Auschwitz Concentration Camp was built in 1943. This work was carried out by the local Construction Inspection Section (Construction Inspection Section Auschwitz), after the necessary allocations of material had been made to this Construction Inspection Section by Amtsgruppe C of the WVHA.
"17. The gas chamber installations and the crematoria in the Ausschwitz Concentration Camp was built by the method described in paragraph 16.
"18. The statement of accounts for these constructions were forwarded to Office VI of Amtsgruppe C for preliminary examination for the supreme Auditing Office of the Reich or else they were submitted to the auditors of Amt C-VI. That was the prescribed official channel for all Construction Inspections Sections which were responsible to Amtsgruppe C of the WVHA."
Then Paragraph 21: "Standartenfuehrer Frank Eirenschmalz was Chief of Office C-VI from February 1942 until May 1945. He had been an associate of mine since 3 February 1943 with interruptions. From January 1943 until May 1943 he was Deputy Chief of Amtsgruppe C."
And Paragraph 20: "The construction, that is to say, the extension of the Riga Concentration Camp was undertaken during the second half of 1942."
The last part of the paragraph says that it was carried out as described above in Paragraphs 16 and 19. Does that refresh your recollection with regard to Eirenschmalz with respect to gas chambers, crematoria, and concentration camps?
A Yes, I can not imagine anything else and have nothing to add in this respect. I assume that this is correct.