The kommando from the beginning of their being stationed in Lubny until the march to the cast, to Charkov, dealt mainly with these matters. After they arrived in Charkov I heard for the first time of this activity, of this subkommando which was floating about in the territory.
THE PRESIDENT: I didn't quite get the connection of the pickled beef in this narrative. Just what was that? Will you repeat it, please?
THE WITNESS: The kommando leader in December, 1941--
THE PRESIDENT: Which kommando leader was this now?
THE WITNESS: The kommando leader of the newly install subkommando which arrived in the vicinity around Lubny on the 18th of October, 1942.
THE PRESIDENT: Which number was it?
THE WITNESS: That was the only subkommando apart from the advance kommando.
THE PRESIDENT: Of the SK-4a?
THE WITNESS: Of the SK-4a, that was part of SK-4a.
THE PRESIDENT: All right.
THE WITNESS: These people arrived in Charkov in December, the advance kommando, the subkommando, and the remainder had to eat in this location and these men carried with them this preserved beef which they had taken with them.
THE WITNESS: It was pickled, beef, as the Russians do prepare it. We distributed it later on to the population of Charkow.
THE PRESIDENT: You distributed this pickled beef to the population?
THE WITNESS: Later on, when the kommandos left, this pickled beef was distributed to the population.
THE PRESIDENT: How much did you have that you could distribute among the population?
THE WITNESS: The barrels.
THE PRESIDENT: Two barrels?
THE WITNESS: Two big beer barrels.
THE PRESIDENT: How we have beer in it? And how much population was there?
THE WITNESS: We did not give it to all the population of Charkow, but to the nearest inhabitants.
THE PRESIDENT: About how many people received a piece of this pickled beef in the beer barrel?
THE WITNESS: By special order of the commander, the population of Charkow were supported in food supplies, because there were emergency circumstances, as far as food goes in Charkow during this particularly severe winter; and kitchens were installed for the people who were in the vicinity and they received a meal from the Wehrmacht rations and for this purpose this beef was used and it was cooked-
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, it was cooked? I thought you said it was pickled.
THE WITNESS: Yes, they make a special kind of meal from this, mixed with beans and the Ukrainians eat it in this manner.
THE PRESIDENT: You said that you distributed the two beer barrels of pickled beef among the population. I want to know how many people were beneficiaries of this beef distribution.
THE WITNESS: Well, there must have been three to four hundredweight of beef, and every day they had large boilers of 150 liters and meat of this kind was added to the beans and men, women, and children, whoever was there, came and got this food in tin plates, they got some soup too and they were most satisfied with this food, because conditions were very bad.
THE PRESIDENT: How many people received the pickled beef from these beer barrels?
THE WITNESS: AT least 100 to 150 people received this food.
THE PRESIDENT: All right. We may proceed with the march.
Q. (By Dr. Heim) Witness, did you finish your answer just then?
A. I want to give details about the condition of the sub-Kommando in December 1941, when they returned from this territory, this was 1 1/2 months later than it says in the document.
Q. Witness, in the same document, it is NO-3405-in Document book II-B of the prosecution, page 65 of the English, page 69 of the German text, there is a section which is headed, "Activities of Sub-Kommando SK-4a in poltawa" -- and quote. In this report it says that in Polotawa on the 23rd of November. 1941, a Jew's extensive operation was carried out during which 1,538 Jews were shot. Did the SK-4a carry out such an action in Poltawa?
A. My Kommando Sk 4a did not carry such an action in Poltawa, because it had neither a sub-kommando nor even a platoon which was ever stationed in poltawa. If this action is correct and corresponding to the facts, the Special Kommando 4b, which was actually stationed in Poltawa would have been responsible, or the EK5, which was detailed to this location. I don't know about the events as mentioned in the report.
Q. I shall put it to you, witness, that according to this document the total figure of people shot by the Sk 4a until 30 November 1941 is of 59,018 people. Will you please comment on this?
A. The total figure is in contradiction with logic. It is an addition to reported figures which contain different units and different territories. It is also an addition which was carried out by the Berlin Agency.
The units were mixed up and some figures have been doubled. The town, Boguslaw, Kochewatgo, Tscherepin, Shwaliwka, Justungrad, Wolodarka, Uman, Tyschy, Borispol, Koselez, are garrisons of the EK-5, but outside the sector of the activities of the unit. The locations, Kiew, Boguslaw, Tscherepin, Gornos taipol, Dymer, Poltawa, Ghermkow, Tschernigow, Charkow, Ostow, Oster, -- Ostow and Oster both-Lubni, Gornostaipol, Dymer and Poltawa are all within the sector of the rear army territory east of Kiev, which came under EK-5, under the leadership of Obersturmfuehrer Meyer. SK 4a, the actual SK 4a including this sub-kommando in the combat area carried out 107 shootings in Lubny farther east.
Q. Witness, before I now come to a new sector, I want to refer to another document. This document is contained in Document Book ii-C of the prosecution, on page 37 of the German text. It bears the exhibit number 74, Document No. 2827.
THE PRESIDENT: I didn't catch the document book number.
DR. HEIM: II-C.
Q. II-C, Exhibit 74, Document 2827. It is in the English Document Book on page 33. On page 34 of the English Document Book in the second paragraph from the top, it is on page 39 in the German document book, it says, I quote, it is page 34, second paragraph in the English. "on 7 November 1941, a sub-kommando of the SK 4a shot 385 Jews in Gornostaipol, according to martial law. These Jews had, for the greater part, been driven together into Gornostaipol from the surrounding villages. On its way back to Kiev, the sane Kommando shot 120 Jews in Dymer, and 30 Jews in Oster on the same day. This action Was carried out in cooperation with the Wehrmacht offices without any mishap." That is the end of my quotation. Witness, does this agree with the facts?
A. The actual SK 4a was never active in these villages. Gornostaipol and Oster were within the field of activities of EK 5; in this way, this report is not in agreement with the facts.
Dr. HEIM: Your Honor, I now take the liberty of offering Document Blobel No. 3 as Exhibit 3. It is the third photostatic chart. It is in the first document book, Blobel, which is headed with, "Breakdown for Subordination System of the SK 4a as from the middle of OctoberNovember, 1941."
Q. Witness, does this chart agree with the actual subordination system of the SK 4a in September, October, 194l, when the remainder of this Kommando was stationed in Kiev?
A. Yes, it is the exact reproduction of the subordination system in October and November, 1941.
A. Will you please give us a detailed description of this plan?
A. This chart contains three sectors. The rear army territory at the bottom; in the center, there is the combat area; the frontal area is at the top. In the rear army territory and operational territory, which at that time was a civilian administered territory, the Einsatzgruppe was stationed, first under Dr. Rasche and then under Dr. Thomas. The remainder of the kommando 4a, under my own leadership, was subordinated to Group C and was actually part of the frontal sector, but through changes in the personnel had remained in the garrison of the Group. The channel of command was: AUK 6 G-2 to the unit and from there to the sub-kommando. Orders of Group C to the sub-kommandos in the frontal sector were never given, because the commander of the ACK 6 had the sole power of command for the whole combat area. The channel of reporting of the sub-commands Was: G-2 of the Division to G-2 of the ACK 6 and from there to Group C and from there to the remainder of 4a, each time via the liaison officer with ACK 6. For the rear army territory there was an exchange of orders between ACK 6 and Group C. With the later curtailment of the rear army territory, which was conditioned by the Dnjepr River, this same channel of command remained Group C to ACK 6.
Kiev? frozen and the bridge had shifted. It was a very difficult march.
Q Whi was the destination of the SK 4-A?
A Charkow via Poltawa, there to report to the _OK 5 and then the march to the destination. There the field marshal had to be reported to. There was a personal discussion and then the assignment was
Q When did you reach your destination?
Q What happened then to the SK 4-A? the territory around Charkow and also the leaders eventually convened in Charkow.
Q Were there ports of the SK 4-a at this time? always been in this territory , was already in Charkow at this time.
Q Which was the sub-kommando that reached Charkow later? even farther to the Most and this Kommando reached its destination at a later date.
Q Was the whole kommando collected at Charkow now?
Q Did one kommando branch off from Kommando SK 4-a? SK 4-a was detailed.
Q Where was this supply kommando stationed?
Q What was the strength of this kommando?
Q What was the condition of the SK 4-a when it arrived in Charkow?
winter was completely exhausted, dirty, lazy and in a very poor condition. Part of the vehicles - as a consequence of the icy paths there were no actual roads at that time - were in a terrible state and needed repair.
Q For what tasks was SK 4-a detailed in Charkow? tion? of which it was assigned.
Q Was it increased?
assignment at Poltawa; defense measures had to be taken, because there
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, the last document from the Document Book Blobel No. 1, I take the liberty of offering this Blobel Document No. 4 as Exhibit No. 4. It is a photostatic chart headed, "Purely Military Assignment of the Special Kommando 4-a in the Sector Charkow in December 1941, January 1942." assignment of the SK 4-a, concerning the subordination system? 1942.
Q Herr Blobel, will you give some details to the Tribunal? and the distribution of individual units. In the lower part, the territory has been put in. In the rear army territory, the combat area has been put in. At the some time, the Dnjepr river shows the border of the rear combat territory. In the back there is the civilian administered territory, which has been put in at the upper third of the chart.
In the civilian administered territory, the SS and Police Leader was in command of Einsatzgruppe C. In the combat area, AOK 6, with its supreme commander and the subordinated Division C is marked in. In the last mentioned, there was the permanent liaison officer of the SK 4-a. A dotted line shows the channel of command of liaison officer to the supply kommando in the combat area of the SK 4-a. As this dotted line points out, there was a channel which went via the supply kommando 4-a to SK 4-a. Its force was in the frontal area or, at least near the frontal area. The SK 4-a, as is shown in the lower third of the chart was stationed in the defense regions around Charkow, together with other units. From the Division C of the AOK 6, as the full lines show, the orders went immediately to the commander of an army sector who was in charge of a number of defense sectors. The SK with a number of other units became a sector within the general defense sector; the sector commanders were immediately subordinated to it. The line leading from the AOK 6 to the division commander shows the immediate subordination system and frontal divisions were immediately in the front line, in special positions.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, I think this would be the time to have a recess.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will be in recess until L;45.
(A recess was taken until 1345 hours.)
(The Tribunal reconvened at 1345 hours.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed. BY DR. EHIM: Blobel No. 4, which received Exhibit No. 4. This chart shows the military assignment of the SK 4-a in the Charkow area from December 1941 to January 1942. military assignment within the sector Charkow. of AOK 6 was assigned. Shortly after my arrival in Charkow we had negotiations with him and we discussed the situation. All officers of all units in and around Charkow participated in this discussion. the units, and the commanders, were assigned. The SK 4-a was assigned for day and night duty in the Charkow sector. Positions were taken up; engineers blasted the position; it was severe cold; alarm stages were ordered from one to three; territorial and road security was established; the Russians attacked in the southeast at various points. These break-throughs generally ended at the hedgehog position, generally behind the frontal position. About ten kilometers before advance raids against Charkow. Q What was your state of health at that time?
A Bad. I still suffered from Wolhynian fever because of exertions and strains.
THE PRESIDENT: I have heard reference to this fever now very many times; I have not yet got the name of it. Will the interpreter please spell it for me?
INTERPRETER: W-o-l-h-y-n-i-a-n.
THE PRESIDENT: Never heard about that particular type of fever, so it was quite a mystery to me as to what the word was.
DR. HEIM: I myself, although I have been a soldier in Russia, have not experienced it. But as far as I know, it is a disease, a fever, the cause of which apparently has not been discovered until this very day. Unfortunately, I am not able to give you a further statement about it as I have not experienced it myself. But perhaps the witness can give you a detailed statement.
THE PRESIDENT: No, I am not interested as a doctor to ascertain the symptoms of the disease. I merely wanted to know what the word was.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, Wolhynian is a county in Russia, a district. It has many swamps - and as this fever has been influenced by the swamps and occurs in many cases in this district, it got this name Wolhynian fever.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. Thank you very much. BY DR. HEIM:
Q Witness, you said that there were many cases of Wolhynian fever; what was the cause of this? against it; but the men also were taken with this fever, severely, or perhaps sometimes less severely. Suddenly one had high fever and just lay around for days - it was an intestinal disease.
Q How long did the disease affect you?
A From the end of December 1941 until March 1942. In February my state of health improved. Then I had a severe relapse in March 1942.
Q When were you detailed back to Berlin?
Q When did your successor take over SK 4-a?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, in February he was in Berlin, and I understood him to say he got the fever again in February.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, the witness said he was recalled to Berlin -
or the order to return to Berlin reached him at the end of January 1942. He said before that in February 1942 his state of health improved. He did not yet say when he was relieved in the East.
THE PRESIDENT: I understood himto say that in February 1942 he had a relapse of the Wolhynian fever. But since he was in Berlin at that time, if he had any fever at all, it would have to have been the Berlin fever.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, I did not -- (Interrruption)
THE PRESIDENT: Don't worry about it, Dr. Heim, it isn't that important.
DR. HEIM: How long were you in the East?
Q Before March 1942 you did not go to Berlin?
Q When did your successor take over the Special Commando SK 4-a? beginning of January, new officers of Gruppe C had been detailed to take over the administration of the current administrative matters.
Q Who was the successor as the leader of SK 4-a?
A My successor was Dr. Weinmann.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, before I conclude with the activity of the defendant as the leader of SK 4-a, I want to cone back to a number of documents of the Prosecution. BY DR. HEIM:
Q A preliminary question. Witness, did you yourself ever order executions to be carried out?
A I never ordered executions, and never carried out executions. In each case I received orders for the execution from my superiors. In cases in which I myself received such orders there was documentary evidence on the basis of which the responsible bearer of the order had decided upon these measures, and which, in my opinion, were justified according to international law.
Thus parts of the Commando under the Army, or under the Higher SS and Police leader who carried out these measures -- these units had been ordered by the commander of the AOK 6 or by the Higher SS and Police Leader to carry out these measures.
on page 27 of the German text. It is exhibit No. 132, document No. N)-4438. In the English document book it is on page 20. It is an affidavit by the co-defendant Radetzky of the 25th of July 1947. Under figure No. 5 which is at the end of page 2 of the original of the affidavit, the defendant Radetzky says, I quote: "I also know that Stadartenfuehrer Blobel ordered executions." End of my quotation.
Witness does this affidavit not contradict your own statements? executions, but in each case 0 have received express orders to carry out executions from superior authority. My own explanation of Radetzky's statements is that he wanted thus to express that I had these executions carried out by members of the SK 4-a. As it becomes evident from the lines just before, in this affidavit, Radetzky hardly knew anything about the executive measures in regard to executions of the SK 4-a, so that he was not in a position to know on whose order these executions were based. 4-a carried out executions which had been ordered by AOK 6 or other authorities. Did you not have any moral scruples about carrying out executions -- that is, did you regard the carrying out of these executions as in agreement with international law and in agreement with humanitarian principles? indulging in espionage and sabotage, and those who were of a detrimental of ect to the German army, were, in my opinion, completely in accordance with the Hague Convention. I believe that the Allies could have acted differently in their advance into Germany if they had been faced with the violations of international law which the German Army faced inthe East. Inhuman treatment of German soldiers, the bestial treatment of such soldiers, and shooting of such soldiers by Russian civilians from ambush, and the unlawful warfare waged by the Russian would fill whole archives.
The AOK 6 collected these incidents as proof. For this purpose special departments were established, and from the very beginning of the fighting, such cases could be established. As far as I know, the German Wehrmacht suffered about ten to fifteen dead each day -who had been killed on the march through these territories on the march to the front - shot from ambush, in violation of international law.
I myself saw one morning, five members of the German army shot and han gthe corpses. The reports from Department 6 show that five German airmen
THE PRESIDENT: There seems to be a question about the interpre tation.
Just a moment please.
INTERPRETER: Your Honor, it is actually "welding machines." I cannot imagine that that is what the defendant said. "Welding apparatus." Yes, it is a welding machine, your Honor.
(witness continuing.) taken part. In those localities which the German army passed on the advance, atrocities increased. The last incident which I know from the report myself, happened in Charkow. In the winter from 1941 to 1942 an engineer company on the march was attacked by Russian panje cars-which are horse-drawn vehicles loaded with straw, and they were attacked from those cars with machine guns and killed. The following Russian armored cars rolled over the corpses of the members of the German army. BY THE PRESIDENT: Eastern front?
been committed by the Allies. Your only experience with the enemy in this war was with Russia, was it not?
A What I am stating concerns only Russia. Yes. "Allies" -- at least, that is theway we got it.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, may I say something here? The witness said, "I believe that the Allies during their march in Germany would not have acted in a much different manner if the same violations of international law had happened to them which happened to the Germans in their march to the East." Your Honor, I have laready noticed that through the translation the subjunctive does not come through. "Had" can mean in the German "Haette" or "Hatte". This, of course, gives the Tribunal a distorted picture.
THE PRESIDENT: He was only stating a supposition, then?
DR. HEIM: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
A (By the witness - continuing) As for this last incident in Charkow, it could be established that many partisan groups collaborated with the Russian army, and that was made possible because the frontal position was arranged in hedge-hog positions with large distances in between. The German dead are many - at least, those who were killed by invisible, armed civilians from ambush. One had to be very careful about the harmless-looking groups of fields workers who, in reality, were armed partisans bands, and only those who fought the Russians can really testify how ruthlessly and how brutally the Russians fought in this war. I wish, your Honor, you could seen these mutilated corpses and the brutality murdered German soldiers in Russia. for instance, where executions took place at the hands of Ukrainians and such people.
The supporters of the propagandists were the danger of the rear of the German army, and measures taken against these, and reprisals against such people are justifiable according to international law, or, at least, I regarded it as justifiable according to international law.
hostages I did not and do not regard justifiable. With such an order I do not agree and I do not agree with it today. the German text. It is Exhibit No. 31, Document No. 3825, and in the English document book it is on page 129. It is the affidavit of the Defendant Blobel of the 6th of June 1947. I refer to No. 7 in this affidavit, that is in the German document book on page 162, and in the English page 131. Your Honor, it is on 131 of the English document book. It says here, beginning with No. 7 end I quote:
"The Sonderkommando 4-a has killed women and children too." That is the end of my quotation. Witness, this sentence is in the affidavit which you gave to the Prosecution. Is this statement correct? children for espionage and sabotage and a military court martial passed judgment on them. women and children?
A Not under these circumstances. Every spy and saboteur knew what he had to expect when he was arrested.
Q Why did you have no moral scruples? losses and damage on the German side, if the individual was sentenced to death by the German Wehrmacht. I must, however, call those executions as morally indefensible if special units had to take a part in the shooting of women and children, as for instance in Kiev where I cannot say whether women and children were actually shot. I myself have never seen an execution of women and children and I never experienced such an execution. 1947. As Mr. Wartenberg confirmed when he was on the witness stand, this affidavit is an escerpt from your interrogation by the Prosecutor.
tion. Witness, were you ever during this interrogation, before you made out this affidavit, warned by the Prosecution that you had the right to refuse to give testimony about any facts which might incriminate you?
Q Did you make out this affidavit yourself, or did you dictate it? an affidavit was there submitted to me. in this affidavit? changes, whereupon a new affidavit was made out. On the afternoon of the same day I was called in again to sign the new affidavit and after I had read through this new affidavit I told Mr. Wartenberg that there was an erroneous and distorted picture in this new affidavit and that some additional remarks concerning the individual points would have to be inserted. Herr Wartenberg told me then that the text must not be changed, and that we would have many discussions about it in the future and any desired additions could be made then.
Q Were you called in again for an interrogation? to explain in how far the present affidavit does not correspond to the contents of your interrogations?
the shooting of women and children. I have already dealt with it during my direct examination and I do not have to explain my attitude now.
Q Witness, under No. 5 of your affidavit it says: "It is page 161 in German, it is 130 of the English, and I quote:
" According to a superficial estimate the correctness of which I cannot guarantee - I presume that the number of executions in which the Sonderkommando 4-a took a part lies somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000."
correct in this form, or can you give us a few further explanations as to these figures? a maximum number of the executed people in which the SK 4-a together with other units participated, insofar as a commando or even one man of the SK 4-a was concerned, This number, in my opinion, includes all operations which were ordered by superior authorities and which were made known to me at the time. I stick to this estimate and this limitation of this particular figure, even after having been made acquainted with the documents in this trial. Apart from the retaliatory measures which had been ordered and the measures carried out by a order of the Higher SS and police leaders, or of the Supreme Commander of AOK 6, SK 4-a only then carried out other executions if actually cases were established and based on investigations in the files of the office of the Supreme Commander of AOK 6 or his deputy, as long as I was leader of the SK 4-a. During this whole time of my command I never had to make an independent decision to carry out an operation. the English Document Book I of the Prosecution, and it says, and I quote:
"Q I witnessed several mass executions and in two cases I was ordered to direct the executions." That is the end of my quotation. Witness, do you have to make any explanatory remarks as to this? the Einsatz Commandos in Sokal in the neighborhood of the headquarters of the AOK 6, which was ordered by Field Marshal Von Reichenau, executions of perpetrators which had carried out tortures and brutal measures against German soldiers and I had to report the carrying out of these two executions to the Field Marshal.
6 of the affidavit, and I quote:
"In August or September, 1941, an execution took place near Korosten. 700 to 1,000 men were shot and Dr. Rasch was present at the execution." End of quotation. The impression could be created that this mass execution was carried out by you or that,is, by the SK 4-a, if the preceding and subsequent sentences are scrutinized; will you comment on the wording of this particular sentence?
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Heim, don't you think it will be better merely to call his attention to the statement and then let him give his comment? You proceded your question by indicating what the impression was. Now that may or may not be the impression of any one who reads it neutrally. Merely direct his attention to the sentence or paragraph which you think is subject to an interpretation in two ways and let him comment on it.
DR. HEIM: Thank you, Your Honor, for calling my attention to it. BY DR. HEIM:
Q Witness, you have heard the quotations from the affidavit. Please comment on the statement of that dry? Leader in August of 1941 near Korosten. The Higher SS and Police Leader had detailed police units as well as Ukrainian militia for this operation, and I found out about this operation because I received an order from Group "C" to look around among the prisoners and pick out members of the Ukrainian bandera and to bring them to Shitomir. At this time there were three interrogators and also a driver of SK 4-a who had been sent to Korosten to the community building in order to carry out interrogations. These officers had informed the G-2 of AOK via the Eastern Commandatura that the Higher SS and Police Leader had ordered the shooting of the arrested people, and as I have already explained AOK 6 had a special department for Ukrainian matters.