treated in the District of Salzburg? as was true for the prisoners of war. There was an order to take the foreign workers from the so-called Alpine Fortress. By Alpine Fortress they meant the mountainous area south of the City of Salzburg. I do not know exactly what agency was supposed to handle this evacuation. Perhaps it was the police, because this was the only agency which was competent for this job. At any rate, no foreign workers were evacuated and Herr Schulz had objected to that. Salzburg? police? 1945 two enemy airmen who had bailed out and had jumped into the Salzach River were saved by members of the police. I remember this exactly because this conduct of the police had been criticized by the Party. events which lead to the non-defense of Salzburg in his capacity as High police Officer? decisive manner: the surrendering of Salzburg without defending it. I can give detailed testimony about this, because I had collaborated with Herr Schulz very closely in this question and I think that I can ask for the same recommendation in this matter for myself. I would like to testify between the following phases: First of all that he induced the city not to defend itself....
MR. HOHLICH HOCHWALD: If the Tribunal please, the Defendant Schulz in the witness-stand has explained the story of the surrender of Salzburg in detail.
I do not think it necessary that the witness just repeat what the Defendant Schulz had said. The prosecution is willing to concede that what the Defendant Schulz has said about the surrender of Salzburg is true.
THE PRESIDENT: with that acknowledgment on the part of the prosecution, Dr. Durchholz, you can see that it is unnecessary to continue this line of questioning.
DR. DURCHHOLZ: Your Honor, after the prosecutor has explained that the considers the statements of the Defendant Schulz about these points correct, I think I can.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, correct.
DR, DURCHHOLZ: I think I do not have to have the witness confirm these facts. I merely wanted to prove to the Tribunal that the statements of the Defendant Schulz are correct, even in this point.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DR. DURCHHOLZ: I have no further questions to out to the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Any cross-examination?
MR. HOHLICK HOCHWALD: No cross-examination by the prosecution.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness will be escorted from the witness box and excused.
(The witness was excused.)
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Mayer are you ready now?
THE PRESIDENT: The defendant Steimle will be taken to the witness box.
JUDGE DIXON: Defendant, raise your right hand and repeat after me:
"I swear by God, the Almighty and Omnicient, that I will speak the pure truth, and will withhold and add nothing."
(The witness, repeated the oath.)
JUDGE DIXON: You may be seated. BY DR. MAYER:
Q. Dr. Mayer for the defendant Steimle. direct examination. The examination will be divided into three main parts. First, the brief biography and then the Russian camp assignment chronologically; secondly, a discussion of the documents; and third, the activity of the defendant in Office VI of the Reich Main Security Office.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed. BY DR. MAYER:
Q. Witness, may I first remind you to speak slowly and to watch that the questions have been completely translated before you begin your answer to them.
A. My name is Eugen Steimle.
Q. Please give a short biography.
A. I was born on 8 December 1909 and the seventh child of a small farmer in New Bulach in the Black Forest. I attended grammar school for four years. As a result of some efforts on the part of my teacher, and made possible by the financial support of an older brother, I got to attend high school and in the year 1929 I graduated. Since my father was not in a position to send me to the university I had to rely on scholarships and extra work during vacations and on aid during my student days.
From 1929 to 1935 I studied history, German history, French language and literature. In 1935 and 1936 I passed the two prescribed State examinations for teachers at higher schools. I married in the year 1936 and I have three children.
Q. Please describe briefly your political career down to your joining of the SD?
A. Already during my time in school I was very much interested in politics and history. I watched domestic and foreign events closely at the end of the 20s and after 1930. As far as one can speak of a political opinion at such a young age I had such an opinion. I was an adherent of the foreign policies of Stresemann. Domestically I did not have any set opinion, that is in the sense of rejecting the Republic. I was not in favor of returning to a Monarchy. At the time National chauvinism was not considered right in our family. Nevertheless, I as well as the major part of my generation was moved by the domestic political split, the weakness and economic distress of Germany as well as the decreasing prospect of Germany to overcome the Versailles Treaty. An almost Nihilistic realism became evident in my generation. We saw no absolute values any more and a pessimistic resignment was very common. A State without life, an economy without any prospect for recovery, the class struggle within our people - these are matters which moved us very deeply at that time. We suffered especially from the struggle between the great number of parties and we judged the Weimar Republic by the unemployment prevailing at the time. I personally from my political interests observed the increasing strength of the Communist party and I busied myself with those ideas. This was especially possible during my studies at the University of Berlin in the years 1931 and 1932. I arrived at a complete rejection of International Communism perhaps because of the tendency which existed in my home. On the other hand I was in favor of every social thought in the sense that it should be achieved, that every human being was to get as great a benefit as possible from the economic property of his country.
My thoughts led me to believe that in a poor country one could not adopt a "Laisser faire" attitude to overcome distress but that poverty can only be overcome by plan and for this we needed National unity. This was the necessary premise which changed such a condition. For these reasons I became a National Socialist, less so under the influence of any particular National Socialistic personality but rather by way of theoretical thinking through of this idea. When I joined the National Socialist Party in May 1932 I believed in the possibility that if all National forces are gathered together in the interest of social improvement that the German economic distress could be overcome. In this sense I also believed in revision of the Versailles Treaty.
Q. I would like to interrupt you.........you mean a peaceful revision?
A. Yes, a peaceful revision. However, I joined the Party on the first of May 1932. My activity was restricted first to paying Party dues. In October 1932 I was asked to join the student union as a Party member which happened SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH JOINING THE students SA. I served as an SA man until in March 1933 I suffered a short accident which forced me to take a leave from the SA for an extended period of time. After that I belonged to the staff of SA Standarte without doing any service there but I was active in the National Socialist Student Union in which I held the rank of student leader at the University of Tuebingen. Later I held the position as Student District Leader in Wurtemberg. I was called to these positions without previous knowledge. Both of these functions were on an honorary basis, that is, without remuneration. I worked in these offices merely out of my enthusiasm as a student and out of patriotism.
Q. How did you come to join the SD?
A. I met Dr. Scheel in my student work. Dr. Scheel was leader of the SD Sector Southwest in 1936. This sector comprised the districts of Wurtemberg, Baden, Halls and Saar. Dr. Scheel suggested to mo that after I passed my examination of assessor, I join the SD and that I take over a position to be determined later in the district of Wurtemberg. I held several conferences with Dr. Scheel about a job with the SD. Up to that time I had had no contact with the SD and did not know its jurisdiction. Dr. Scheel described the SD to me as a function of the SS whose job it is to observe the political development in domestic and foreign respect in order to be able to inform the leading agencies about what was going on. It was clearly evident that this was not police work of individual cases and not of the prosecution of individuals but that it was supposed to give a survey about the tendencies in all branches of public life. Personally I was especially interested in building up a foreign information service which at that time was in a very embryonic stage.
Q. When did you join the SD?
A. First of April 1936.
Q. Was that connected with your membership in the SS, too?
A. Yes, I was taken into the SS a few weeks after the beginning of my activity in the SD. I became a member of the SS within the SD. I did not become a member of the General SS, the Allgemeine-SS.
Q. Did you have to go through any training in the SD before taking up your position?
A. I was active to get Information in the above mentioned Southwest Sector of the SD. I did not get to know the SD Main Office at that time. My membership in the SD depended entirely on my cooperation with Dr. Scheel.
Q. Did you have the intention of pursuing your SD work as a career?
A. No. I had myself furloughed from school service temporarily and had the intention of returning to that later on.
Q. Did any financial consideration play any role in your membership in the SD?
A. No, my starting salary in the SD was either the same or less than that of student assessor.
Q. What motivated you then to join the SD?
A. As I have already stated I was very much interested in politics from my early days on. At that time the SD seemed to me a good opportunity to get to know in detail the domestic and foreign political problems of Germany. As seen from the Stuttgart circle I believed that via the SD I could exert positive information on the political development of the German State. The other positive criticism which was the SD's function was often used and we made use of such criticism. My political tendencies which moved me to join the SD were supported by my disinclination to take up a civil service career at the age of 26.
Q. What functions did you carry on in the SD?
A. From April 1936 until September 1936 I was Staff Leader of the SD Sector Stuttgart which at that time occupied 12 people full time. From September 1936 until my transfer to Office VI of the Reich Main Security Office in February 1943 I was leader of SD Sector Stuttgart.
Q. Of what did your activities consist as leader of this Sector, especially after the outbreak of the War?
A. As I have already explained the job of the SD was to observe all branches of public life such as culture, economics, etc. May I make reference here to what my co-defendant Ohlendort has already stated?
Q. As SD leader in Stuttgart did you have anything to do with foreign information service, too?
A. Yes, especially after the outbreak of the War. Then the Reich Main Security made an attempt to build up a functional foreign political service. In this matter a department of my sector was entrusted with the job.
Q. How many SS leaders were subordinated to you as department chiefs?
A. Until the outbreak of the War my sector had about 20 full time department chiefs. Waffen SS or Army or were just taken away. They were replaced by people on War emergency status.
Q. What was the area for which these 20 leaders were competent?
A. This area comprised the province of Wurtemberg with about 3-1/2 million inhabitants.
Q. Did you or your SD sector during the War occupy yourselves with combating so-called State enemies?
A. No, as already stated this was not the job of the SD.
This is clearly evident in the organization of an SD sector which had no department or no expert to combat enemies of the State.
Q. What was the relationship of the Gestapo in the district of Wurtemberg to your sector?
A. The two organizations were completely independent of each other. Whereas the SD sector was under Office IV for the domestic service or under Office VI for foreign service the superior agency for the Gestapo was Office IV, the so-called Gestapo Office.
Q. Could the Gestapo give instructions or directives?
A. No, just as little as I could give directives to the Gestapo.
Q. Did you or your collaborators have the power to conduct interrogations or make arrests?
A. No, this was not within our job.
Q. Could the so-called reports of yours result in arrest?
A. No. These reports did not deal with individual people but with events - objective events.
Q. Can one designate the SD as an auxiliary organ of the Gestapo?
A. No. Both organizations were active in entirely different fields and locally in Wurtemberg, completely independent of each other.
Q. When did you hoar of the so-called assignment of the Security Police and SD for the first time?
A. Some time after the campaign in France, units were activated in Stuttgart which moved into France and which were composed of State Police, Criminal Police, and SD. As far as I know this was the first organizational get-together of all those three units in the person of the Unit Commander whereas the branches worked independently of each other under his direction.
Q. According to what you know then were these Einsatz units given now jobs which went beyond the jurisdiction of what was known to you to be the job of the State Police, Criminal Police, and the SD?
A. No.
Q. When did you receive the order to go to Russia?
A. At the end of August 1941.
Q. Where were you at that time?
A. In Stuttgart.
Q. Do you know how this order came to be given?
A. Yes. As the order was given to me by teletype I also found an explanation why I received it. In the years 1939-1940 I tried to in various ways to join the combat troops.
My applications were always refused. I was very unhappy about this because as a young man I did not want to stay at home -- whereas a brother of mine, who was 10 years older, was at the front. I was assured of myself before my family, and I was afraid of being called a slacker. I considered it my duty to be a soldier, and I considered my job in the SD as one fit for 4-F. For this reason in May or June 1941 I made another attempt to get away from the SD and to be able to join the troops. I went to Berlin, to the Main Security Office, and reported to Streckenbach, the Chief of Office I. I did not know Streckenbach personally -- just as little as I ever got to know Heydrich. I expressed my wish to him. Streckenbach rejected it Categorically, without any discussion, and he explained to me that I would soon have an opportunity to prove myself at the front. I could not find an explanation for this answer at that time, but when I received my marching order to Russia it was clear that this was what Streckenbach had meant.
Q What were the contents of this order? Commando 7-a, and that I was to report as soon as possible to Brigadefuehrer Nebe in Smolensk. The necessary equipment was to be gathered up in Berlin. Commando?
A No. I first heard the expression "Special Commando" at that time, and I could not imagine what that could mean.
Q Did you find any clarification about your mission in Berlin?
A No; while passing through Berlin I merely reported to the Quartermaster and received my equipment there.
Q Why didn't you report to the Chief of Office I when you passed through Berlin?
A There was no cause to do that. The report read definitely to report to Nebe in Smolensk.
Soviet state and its regime?
A Yes. In about the year 1927, distant relatives of my family had returned from Russia to Germany. From their reports I got an idea about the Soviet state as a regime of an absolute wilfulness of the Communist party. A member of this family had been killed without any reason, aid others had been sent into exile. This impression about Russia became stronger during my student days, when I made the acquaintance of a Russian student who had left Russia about 1930 on a Finnish ship, and who had told me very much about his experiences. After all this I had to arrive at the conclusion that Bolshevism did not respect any human being if it was a matter of having its way about the world revolution. The Communist party in Germany, for example, the uprisings in Hamburg, etc., gave sufficient proof of this. From the statements of the German government at the outbreak of the war with Russia I further had to assume that Russia, by making use of the international situation, would try to spread Comnunism in order to find further basis for a world revolution. would not feel bound by international law in the war against Germany? it was very decisive for me that during my stay in Stuttgart in August 1941 I received an authentic report which was filled with photos, which showed the slaughter of a Wuertemberg infantry battalion which had become prisoners. After the battalion had been taken prisoners the men were undressed and the soldiers were tortured to death in individual groups. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q When did that occur?
Q In June 1941?
Q Where were you in the latter part of 1939?
Q You didn't get to the Eastern front at all during the Polish war?
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
A (witness continuing) As a result of the fact that another battalion fought its way free a short time later and found a few survivors as witnesses, this data and its circumstances could be confirmed by witnesses and by photographs.
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps my interruption caused the witness not to complete the description of the episode. He was at the point where he said an infantry battalion had been undressed. I don't know whether he completed that story or not.
WITNESS: I said that the soldiers were undressed after they had been taken prisoners, and were killed in groups. BY DR. MAYER: Continue.
A (by the witness) This incident was no rumor for me. It was reality.
QWhen did you arrive in Smolensk? you get any directives from him?
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Mayer, you are just about to open up a new field of discussion. Suppose we recess now until one forty-five.
(The Tribunal recessed until 1345 hours).
(The hearing reconvened at 1355 hours, Nove. 5,1947) The Tribunal is again in session.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) DR. MAYER: Dr. Mayer for Defendant Steimle.THE PRESIDENT:
Proceed. BY DR. MAYER: ordered to report to Nebe in Smolensk and you told us that on 4 September 1941 you arrived in Smolensk. I non ask you, did you see the Chief of Einsatzgruppe B, Nebe, there, and did you get instructions from him?
A The day after my arrival in Smolensk I reported to Nebe. Nebe told me the following on that occasion: the activity of the Einsatzgruppe and the Einsatzkommandos and the Sonderkommandos in the Army territory is based on a Fuehrer order. It is the task of these units to look after the security in the rear Army territory and in the rear of the fighting troops. This had to be done by ruthless fighting, against all Communist forces which appeared, and their resistance. According to the experience gathered so far the Jews were to be considered as the main bearers of Bolshevism. Nebe did not leave any doubt that active Communist forces and also partisans were to be shot for the sake of security in the territory. He also told me that leaders and men were under war law during the assignment. gypsies, so-called Asiatics of nationally inferior people and asocial elements?
A No, I do not remember any such order. I don't think I ever received such an order.
security order concerning the shootings? not known him. Therefore, I did not know his attitude. Apart from that at that moment I was so confused about the contents of this information that I could not adopt a definite attitude at that time or at least I could not express my feelings. order known to you?
A No, only later did I realize how important the order was. I believed to understand from it that only Jews who were active opponents were to be shot. I did not understand that this meant the killing of all the Jews. Apart from that I assumed at the time that the details of my now task would be told me by the commander leader who would instruct no about it when the kommando was handed over to me.
Q Why were you so impressed by the order then? police importance to which I neither felt inclined nor was I trained for this. In my career until that time I had never carried out an arrest or examination. Such things were quite strange to me. To make decisions about life and death of human beings touched a sphere of life which was quite strange to me according to origin, inner attitude and education.
Q Did Nebe give you further instructions? securing interesting and important document material of the Soviets when advancing and utilizing then and sending them to the Einsatzgruppe to be utilized.
Q During your discussion did Nebe talk about reporting of the SD?
A Yes. He said that would give me all the information on this reporting.
Q Did you do this?
he told me that the necessity of police security seemed to be more important than the security in the SD work. He asked me, since I had been SD section chief, to help him with the SD reporting. achieve? was a decisive factor for the security of the territory to realize clearly contents and meaning of Bolshevism. Only on the basis of such knowledge could the right measures for the security of the territory be established.
Q Can you give us an example for this conception? An objective questioning and inquiry had to find out how the system worked. In view, for example, of the harvest, it had to be determined how, what effect the system had on the country people, whether the system was approved of by the population or whether they did not like it, whether the farmers just wanted changes or whether they wanted to abolish the system altogether. Only after clearing all those questions one could come to a decision suitable for that territory, and the same system, in order to realize the necessity of the territory, had to be used when judging educational questions and schooling and similar set-ups which we came across in the Russian territory.
Q When did yea start being in charge of Kommando 7a? 7a? 1941.
Q Who handed the kommando over to you? the kommando over to me. He had been in charge of it as deputy because my predecessor had already left for Berlin some time ago.
Q Where did you take over the kommando? stationed. Another subkommando was in Welikie-Luki. This city is about 150 to 200 kilometers from Welish.
Q Where were you stationed?
A I was in Welish. But about 15 September I visited the headquarters in Welikie-Luke and stayed there for about two days.
Q How strong was Sonderkommando 7a? composed of officials of the State Police, the Criminal Police, and a few SD members, also Waffen-SS reserve men and a number of active Waffen-SS men and drivers. about the situation in which the kommando was? kommando Welish made reconnaisance and fought partisans at the order of and in cooperation with the Army.
Q Why was the combating of partisans the most important?
around Welish and the city of Demidow near Beij partisans had been very active and, according to Folte's statement, this had not occurred in the territory of the Ninth Army before.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Mayer, will you please indicate on the map about where this is taking place?
DR. MAYER: Yes, your Honor. It was the territory northwest, northeast of Smolensk and south of this lake, to the right of Staraya Rusa.
THE PRESIDENT: Would it be on the Volga River?
DR. MAYER: No, between the Dnjepr and the Volga, in this territory.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
DR. MAYER: And north of the railway from Smolensk to Moscow which is not mentioned on this map.
A (Continuing; According to Folte's statement, in the Army territory a number of heavy attacks were made daily on individual vehicles and small convoys, and also sabotage acts against bridges, cables, and other equipment of the Army, In Smolensk I had heard about this already. During the journey to Welish they had given me a escort vehicle because it was too dangerous that one vehicle alone should travel.
Q. During such actions were any German soldiers killed? casualties occurred. Communists and Jews as well? His explanations made me understand that according to experience so far the Communist party was the bearer and organizer of the partisan movement and that this was conducted by the functionaries.
Communists? was the organization of the partisan bands. Of course they reported about and collected information regarding the troops. of the Jews? of the Fuehrer decree which he knew that during the advance a number of Jews of military age had been shot. He emphasized particularly that Jewish women or children had never been among them. This last remark, which I remember distinctly, struck me, of course. Until then I had thought that Jews had to be fought in the came way as Communists and partisans, if they had taken an active part in the resistance movement, but this could not apply in general to women and children end the discussion with Foltes advised me completely as to the extent of the Fuehrer decree.
Q When did Foltes report this? in Welish or the following day. Fuehrer decree? be approved of from a humane point of view. Inwardly I rejected it and my conscience was very worried. Simultaneously, however, I know that this order was binding for me and open refusal towards my superiors or an order to the opposite effect towards my subordinate would have been useless.
All I would have achieved by this would have been that the order would have been repeated to me, and then if I did not carry it cut a courts martial would have been the consequence, and no doubt the result would have been terrible.
Q Did you see a way out of this false position?