My applications were always refused. I was very unhappy about this because as a young man I did not want to stay at home -- whereas a brother of mine, who was 10 years older, was at the front. I was assured of myself before my family, and I was afraid of being called a slacker. I considered it my duty to be a soldier, and I considered my job in the SD as one fit for 4-F. For this reason in May or June 1941 I made another attempt to get away from the SD and to be able to join the troops. I went to Berlin, to the Main Security Office, and reported to Streckenbach, the Chief of Office I. I did not know Streckenbach personally -- just as little as I ever got to know Heydrich. I expressed my wish to him. Streckenbach rejected it Categorically, without any discussion, and he explained to me that I would soon have an opportunity to prove myself at the front. I could not find an explanation for this answer at that time, but when I received my marching order to Russia it was clear that this was what Streckenbach had meant.
Q What were the contents of this order? Commando 7-a, and that I was to report as soon as possible to Brigadefuehrer Nebe in Smolensk. The necessary equipment was to be gathered up in Berlin. Commando?
A No. I first heard the expression "Special Commando" at that time, and I could not imagine what that could mean.
Q Did you find any clarification about your mission in Berlin?
A No; while passing through Berlin I merely reported to the Quartermaster and received my equipment there.
Q Why didn't you report to the Chief of Office I when you passed through Berlin?
A There was no cause to do that. The report read definitely to report to Nebe in Smolensk.
Soviet state and its regime?
A Yes. In about the year 1927, distant relatives of my family had returned from Russia to Germany. From their reports I got an idea about the Soviet state as a regime of an absolute wilfulness of the Communist party. A member of this family had been killed without any reason, aid others had been sent into exile. This impression about Russia became stronger during my student days, when I made the acquaintance of a Russian student who had left Russia about 1930 on a Finnish ship, and who had told me very much about his experiences. After all this I had to arrive at the conclusion that Bolshevism did not respect any human being if it was a matter of having its way about the world revolution. The Communist party in Germany, for example, the uprisings in Hamburg, etc., gave sufficient proof of this. From the statements of the German government at the outbreak of the war with Russia I further had to assume that Russia, by making use of the international situation, would try to spread Comnunism in order to find further basis for a world revolution. would not feel bound by international law in the war against Germany? it was very decisive for me that during my stay in Stuttgart in August 1941 I received an authentic report which was filled with photos, which showed the slaughter of a Wuertemberg infantry battalion which had become prisoners. After the battalion had been taken prisoners the men were undressed and the soldiers were tortured to death in individual groups. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q When did that occur?
Q In June 1941?
Q Where were you in the latter part of 1939?
Q You didn't get to the Eastern front at all during the Polish war?
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
A (witness continuing) As a result of the fact that another battalion fought its way free a short time later and found a few survivors as witnesses, this data and its circumstances could be confirmed by witnesses and by photographs.
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps my interruption caused the witness not to complete the description of the episode. He was at the point where he said an infantry battalion had been undressed. I don't know whether he completed that story or not.
WITNESS: I said that the soldiers were undressed after they had been taken prisoners, and were killed in groups. BY DR. MAYER: Continue.
A (by the witness) This incident was no rumor for me. It was reality.
QWhen did you arrive in Smolensk? you get any directives from him?
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Mayer, you are just about to open up a new field of discussion. Suppose we recess now until one forty-five.
(The Tribunal recessed until 1345 hours).
(The hearing reconvened at 1355 hours, Nove. 5,1947) The Tribunal is again in session.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) DR. MAYER: Dr. Mayer for Defendant Steimle.THE PRESIDENT:
Proceed. BY DR. MAYER: ordered to report to Nebe in Smolensk and you told us that on 4 September 1941 you arrived in Smolensk. I non ask you, did you see the Chief of Einsatzgruppe B, Nebe, there, and did you get instructions from him?
A The day after my arrival in Smolensk I reported to Nebe. Nebe told me the following on that occasion: the activity of the Einsatzgruppe and the Einsatzkommandos and the Sonderkommandos in the Army territory is based on a Fuehrer order. It is the task of these units to look after the security in the rear Army territory and in the rear of the fighting troops. This had to be done by ruthless fighting, against all Communist forces which appeared, and their resistance. According to the experience gathered so far the Jews were to be considered as the main bearers of Bolshevism. Nebe did not leave any doubt that active Communist forces and also partisans were to be shot for the sake of security in the territory. He also told me that leaders and men were under war law during the assignment. gypsies, so-called Asiatics of nationally inferior people and asocial elements?
A No, I do not remember any such order. I don't think I ever received such an order.
security order concerning the shootings? not known him. Therefore, I did not know his attitude. Apart from that at that moment I was so confused about the contents of this information that I could not adopt a definite attitude at that time or at least I could not express my feelings. order known to you?
A No, only later did I realize how important the order was. I believed to understand from it that only Jews who were active opponents were to be shot. I did not understand that this meant the killing of all the Jews. Apart from that I assumed at the time that the details of my now task would be told me by the commander leader who would instruct no about it when the kommando was handed over to me.
Q Why were you so impressed by the order then? police importance to which I neither felt inclined nor was I trained for this. In my career until that time I had never carried out an arrest or examination. Such things were quite strange to me. To make decisions about life and death of human beings touched a sphere of life which was quite strange to me according to origin, inner attitude and education.
Q Did Nebe give you further instructions? securing interesting and important document material of the Soviets when advancing and utilizing then and sending them to the Einsatzgruppe to be utilized.
Q During your discussion did Nebe talk about reporting of the SD?
A Yes. He said that would give me all the information on this reporting.
Q Did you do this?
he told me that the necessity of police security seemed to be more important than the security in the SD work. He asked me, since I had been SD section chief, to help him with the SD reporting. achieve? was a decisive factor for the security of the territory to realize clearly contents and meaning of Bolshevism. Only on the basis of such knowledge could the right measures for the security of the territory be established.
Q Can you give us an example for this conception? An objective questioning and inquiry had to find out how the system worked. In view, for example, of the harvest, it had to be determined how, what effect the system had on the country people, whether the system was approved of by the population or whether they did not like it, whether the farmers just wanted changes or whether they wanted to abolish the system altogether. Only after clearing all those questions one could come to a decision suitable for that territory, and the same system, in order to realize the necessity of the territory, had to be used when judging educational questions and schooling and similar set-ups which we came across in the Russian territory.
Q When did yea start being in charge of Kommando 7a? 7a? 1941.
Q Who handed the kommando over to you? the kommando over to me. He had been in charge of it as deputy because my predecessor had already left for Berlin some time ago.
Q Where did you take over the kommando? stationed. Another subkommando was in Welikie-Luki. This city is about 150 to 200 kilometers from Welish.
Q Where were you stationed?
A I was in Welish. But about 15 September I visited the headquarters in Welikie-Luke and stayed there for about two days.
Q How strong was Sonderkommando 7a? composed of officials of the State Police, the Criminal Police, and a few SD members, also Waffen-SS reserve men and a number of active Waffen-SS men and drivers. about the situation in which the kommando was? kommando Welish made reconnaisance and fought partisans at the order of and in cooperation with the Army.
Q Why was the combating of partisans the most important?
around Welish and the city of Demidow near Beij partisans had been very active and, according to Folte's statement, this had not occurred in the territory of the Ninth Army before.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Mayer, will you please indicate on the map about where this is taking place?
DR. MAYER: Yes, your Honor. It was the territory northwest, northeast of Smolensk and south of this lake, to the right of Staraya Rusa.
THE PRESIDENT: Would it be on the Volga River?
DR. MAYER: No, between the Dnjepr and the Volga, in this territory.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
DR. MAYER: And north of the railway from Smolensk to Moscow which is not mentioned on this map.
A (Continuing; According to Folte's statement, in the Army territory a number of heavy attacks were made daily on individual vehicles and small convoys, and also sabotage acts against bridges, cables, and other equipment of the Army, In Smolensk I had heard about this already. During the journey to Welish they had given me a escort vehicle because it was too dangerous that one vehicle alone should travel.
Q. During such actions were any German soldiers killed? casualties occurred. Communists and Jews as well? His explanations made me understand that according to experience so far the Communist party was the bearer and organizer of the partisan movement and that this was conducted by the functionaries.
Communists? was the organization of the partisan bands. Of course they reported about and collected information regarding the troops. of the Jews? of the Fuehrer decree which he knew that during the advance a number of Jews of military age had been shot. He emphasized particularly that Jewish women or children had never been among them. This last remark, which I remember distinctly, struck me, of course. Until then I had thought that Jews had to be fought in the came way as Communists and partisans, if they had taken an active part in the resistance movement, but this could not apply in general to women and children end the discussion with Foltes advised me completely as to the extent of the Fuehrer decree.
Q When did Foltes report this? in Welish or the following day. Fuehrer decree? be approved of from a humane point of view. Inwardly I rejected it and my conscience was very worried. Simultaneously, however, I know that this order was binding for me and open refusal towards my superiors or an order to the opposite effect towards my subordinate would have been useless.
All I would have achieved by this would have been that the order would have been repeated to me, and then if I did not carry it cut a courts martial would have been the consequence, and no doubt the result would have been terrible.
Q Did you see a way out of this false position?
possibility by making the assignment of my commandos slightly different. Under consideration of the situation in the territory of the Ninth Army to evade carrying out this order, or at least, in the case of Jews, to delay carrying out the order by emphasizing the importance of partisan combating which actually was the most important thing at the moment, and owing to the fact that I tried to keep the commandoswith the fighting troops all the time as my predecessor before me had done. The small forces of the Commando had to be utilized to such an extent that for any other activity there was no time left. This could be justified any time.
QHow did your activity as Commandofuehrer develop? for two or three interruptions I remained until the 8th or 10th of October. That is about four weeks in all.
Q What interruptions were there?
A I was at Welikie-Lucki once or twice. Each time for two days. At the end of September or the beginning of October I visited the G-2 of the Army which had been transferred from Welish in the meantime in a small village near Tochowchina. Welish?
A The Kommandos in Welish consisted of about 30 to 40 people. The executive tasks I left to Obersturmfuehrer Voltes. Already previously he had been troop leader of an independent platoon.
Q What do you mean by executive activity? intelligence, arrests, interrogations, and if necessary, executions. in being in charge of this Sparte?
to be carried out? to make such decisions. Leader exclusively to make all the decisions as the only competent person, out the division of the Kommandos, into sub-Kommandos automatically brought it about that the sub-Kommando Leaders decided on their own authority.
Q Did such sub-Kommando Leaders act as they wanted to?
A No. The sub-Kommando Leaders in my case were informed better about their tasks than I was. During sever al personal discussions, I told than in connection with the communist and partisan question which concerned us, and I told then my opinion and ordered them always to examine everything carefully and to be conscientious in their decisions. I actually made tests and examined their decisions when I visited the sub-Kommandos; but I must emphasize again that I had neither been trained militarily; nor did I have police experience, and therefore experts had to deal with these subjects in the subdepartments. For example, as a replacement for Voltes, an elderly criminal commissioner was appointed.
Q Of what did Voltes' activity in the Welish area consist? Russian ausiliary police ; also in connection with the auxiliary police, a number of agents had been appointed. The entire activity was aimed against the activity of partisans already described, against parachutists, and agents. particularly endangered? which. are very suitable for partisans. According to reports by Russians in these territories, terrorists and partisans had stayed
Q In connection with partisan fighting, did you give any orders? principle of justice and examination of each case and I pointed this out to Foltis and the other sub-kommando leaders.
Q Were you always informed about the various operations? the G-2 or by the G-2 CIC: After returning Foltis always gave me oral reports.
Q Was a written report sent to Einsatzgruppe B? handed on the The Group. Communist resistance, as well. In what manner was this carried out? aries that is, at least in the territory of the 9th army, the carrier of the partisan combatting. The Communist functionaries and its active supporters had withdrawn into the woods and the smaller villages after the Red Army had withdrawn in order to carry on Guerilla Warfare from there. This was done in such a manner that in some villages bases here established and attack units stationed themselves in the woods. The securing of the territory against Communist resistance was identical with the partisan combatting. recognize them as Communist functionaries? territory, the Kommando found the papers and the records of the Communist Party and of the NKWD.
Q Did these documents contain specific material? of some leading personalities in case of invasion of the enemy and of the resistanee to be formed.
The corpses were thrown under the trucks by the partisans and the trucks were then get afire. Such incidents occurred continuously in the territory around Welish.
Q Why was Voltes particularly active in the combating of partisans? important security task in the Welish territory. For that reason, it was natural that the Army had given the Kommando orders to combat the partisans. It was necessary, in order to fight these partisans, to have a reconnaissance service, and this service occupied the time of Voltes and his people completely.
Q When happened to the results of the reconnaissance? the nearest Army unit.
Q Was what the entire activity of your Kommando?
A No. On the basis of the reports given to the Army and their units the Army ordered actions wherein Voltes and the Kommando took part by way of fighting and interrogations.
Q Which Army units carried out these assignments?
A That depended on the extent of the assignment. There were assignments in which two divisions took part. Also the army had a special unit which dealt with partisans, the so-called Eingreifgruppe, whose only task was to fight partisans. After arranging with the Army, Voltes with his own forces helped them personally and together with the Russian police he carried out small actions.
Q Owing to such actions, were there any shootings carried out? be shot? group could be established. Also in a few cases people suspected of partisan activity were shot. Among then were people of whom it could at least be proved that they voluntarily had been active by assisting the partisans, either by giving reports to them or by assisting them in some other way.
Q. Who established this during the investigations?
A. In common assignments together with the army, members of the secret field police and officials of Sonderkommando 7A conducted investigations and made written records about this. Based on these records, an army officer together with Foltes after listening to the accused person, passes the sentence.
Q. Who carried out the execution by shooting?
A. I cannot answer this question concerning all the actions because I am not sure of this.
Q. Howwas the procedure handled when Foltes acted independently?
A. Foltes only carried out a few assignments on his own, but the investigation was handled in the same manner. He passed the sentence after discussing it with the officials who had conducted the interrogation and listened to the defendant once more. During the examination the chief of the Russian Security Service was always consulted. The shooting was done under Foltes' supervision. The operations were not carried out in the city of Welish but in the territory around Welish.
Q. Did you yourself take part in such operations against partisans?
A. No.
Q. Why did you not do this?
A. Foltes was a very independent and energetic person. He was a soldier throughout, and formerly he had served in the army as an officer. I myself neither had a military rank nor any military experience. The rank in the SD only meant a rank as intelligence officer and not a military qualification.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Did you know Herr Foltes when you took over the commando?
A. No, but my predecessor. Dr. Blume, in a letter had mentioned him and the fuehrers of the commandos and described them to me in the letter.
Q. And was he recommended to you as a very good soldier?
A. At least, he was recommended as a very clever SS official Who had high qualifications and higher qualifications than some of the other leaders. Another judgment about Foltes I could form after staying there a short time because the army had given him a decoration for his work against the partisans. This had not been applied for by me or my predecessor, but the army did this on its own initiative because of their cooperation.
Q. Here you thoroughly satisfied that he was reliable?
A. As a soldier, as far as I can judge this at all, and according to statements by the army authorities, he was a man who was suitable for this partisan combatting.
Q. Did you have a report on him when you took over the command, and was it because of this report that you were entirely satisfied that he was a man who could be depended upon?
A. I have already said that Dr. Blume was my predecessor, and he mentioned in a letter that he was reliable; and according to the evaluation by the army prior to my time - also because he was given a decoration, I presumed that as a soldier in this partisan combatting he had distinguished himself.
Q. Did you talk with any others of the command about Foltes?
A. One of the leaders of the commando who was a liaison officer of the army and also knew Foltes, sometimes discussed Foltes with me. A further judgment of Foltes consisted of the fact that he was a member of the so-called executive service. He therefore was a man who was qualified according to his activities and his attitude.
Q. You are thoroughly satisfied from all the reports you received that he was entirely reliable and dependable?
A. At least, I could expect that he would carry out his orders according to the instructions of the army.
Q. And Dr. Blame had recommended him highly to you?
A. He had given a description of him which justified that among all. the leaders of the commando he should be given this job, and he was the most suitable man among the leaders.
Q. And you talked with others about Foltes?
A. I cannot remember at the moment having discussed it with anybody else.
Q. You said just a few moments ago that you carried on a conversation about Foltes.
A. Yes. Apart from the discussion mentioned, I did not talk to anyone.
Q. Well, didn't you just say a few moments ago that you discussed with someone else Foltes' reliability and his dependability and his virtues?
A. Yes, Your Honor, and my reply was that apart from this discussion, with the liaison officer whom I mentioned, this liaison officer for the army, I did not discuss Foltes with anybody else but him.
THE PRESIDENT: Just as a matter of information, we will ask the gentlemen of the. prosecution and of the defense counsel whether Foltes is the man that Blume accused as having shot 27 jews on the streets.
DR. FERENCZ: Yes, Your Honor, that is the way the prosecution understands it. It is the same man to whom Blume referred. He said the execution of the 27 was done by Foltes. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Did you consider that a very highly commendable action on the part of Foltes of shooting these Jews on the street without any trial, without any hearing, just shooting them down because they had failed to work?
A. But this action which was mentioned during the examination of the defendant, Blume, I heard here for the first time.
Q. And Blume recommended him to you without any reservation?
A. He described the men whom he gave the commando temporarily, the man we had executive power in the commando.
Q. And he recommended him as to his attitude?
A. I cannot define this so exactly. He gave me a description of all the leaders of the commandos and the positions which they had under him.
Q. You used the word "attitude" just a moment ago in commenting on Foltes?
A. The letter expressed that Foltes was the suitable man to be in charge of the commando temporarily and to carry out the executive activity in the commando.
Q. Yes, Everyone was pleased with Foltes because he carried out the Fuehrer order?
A. I cannot say it like this because he did not refer to the fuehrer decree at that instance.
Q. That is what you were out there for, executing the fuehrer decree, isn't it?
A. The fuehrer decree also contained several security tasks, and in this special, field where Foltes was in charge temporarily, namely; in the Wacish area tasks of that kind were as important as the combatting of partisans, and Foltes, as former army officer among all the SS leaders there, he had the best practical military experience.
Q. And aid you ever have any occasion to be disappointed with him when he was working for you?
A.During the time when he was with me, that lasted for about 4 or 5 weeks, he exclusively dealt with the combatting of partisans, and as the documents can prove in detail, the army ordered him to these actions.
Q. Would you please answer my question, during the time that he was with you, were you ever disappointed with him?
Q Would you please answer that question. During the time he was with you were you ever disappointed with him? out. ing shot down 27 Jews or 21 Jews on the street because they had not turned up for work? stated, that the Kommando carried out shootings of Jews.
Q And that was entirely satisfactory to you? ing my time, he did not carry out any shootings of Jews, but combatted partisans. killed 21 Jews on the street without any trial or investigation, merely because of not having turned up for work, would you still have been satisfied to put him in charge of a sub-kommando? official task in any different manner.
Q Then you would have been satisfied with him? feeling of satisfaction with this. out any investigation or hearing of any kind, would you still have been entirely satisfied to let him be one of your sub-kommandos? That is the question. open protest against this order.
remain?
A May I have that repeated please? would have allowed him to remain as a sub-kommander, even though you had known of this episode? Witebsk would have meant the same as an open objection against the order given.
Q Will you please answer the question. If you had known of this episode, would you still have retained him as a sub-kommander, because of the circumstances in which you found yourself? would have been no way of having him dismissed.
Q Yes, would you have said to him: "Now I learned that you killed 21 or 27 Jews on the street and I don't approve of that kind of activity. From now on, do not execute anyone unless there is first a trial." Would you have told him that? I attached importance to it that the investigations....
Q Now, just a moment, please, Please listen to the question. Here you are out in the field and Foltis is under your command. It has come to your attention that he killed -- Oh, first let me ask you this question: Would you have executed 21 Jews on the street just because they were Jews and had not worked?
Q Please answer that question: Would you have shot them just because they were Jews who did not work, having in mind this Fuehrer Decree? Would you have shot them down?
Q If you would not have found a way out, you would have shot them? security, rather than shoot 27 Jews, theoretically speaking, I would have carried out the order.