THE PRESIDENT: That is, after the examination and cross examination of the defendant?
DR. RIEDIGER: Yes, yes, after the cross examination.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, you may proceed. BY DR. RIEDIGER:
Q Dr. Haensch, will you give the Tribunal the place of your birth and birthdate? small hamlet between Goerlitz and Zittau on the Neisse River.
Q What did your parents do?
A My father was a physician. He practiced in Hirschfelde. He had a most extensive rural practice and he held this practice over fifty years until shortly before his death in February, 1945.
Q What was your education? wards a secondary school, the gymnasium, (classical education). I remained in my parents' home while I received my education. My own and my sister's education was Christian. The profession of my father as a physician carried with it that we met all classes and circles of the population and that we were in close contact with these. Thus, we children, from the very first beginning, were brought up, therefore, in an atmosphere in which we met human beings as human beings, and we learned to estimate their values not regarding what they achieved in their further life and what distinguished them from each other in further life, be it political opinions, religious beliefs or profession or class. up give you a certain impression which was of importance for your further development and your further profession? economic structure of my native village, until the end of the first World War, approximately until 1947, was merely agricultural.
From 1917 this changed especially owing to the very rich coal fields in the neighborhood. A very powerful industry developed. As a consequence of this, the population which up to that moment had been mainly agricultural and rural. now became industrial workers; they now became the majority. Several thousand foreign workers, by that I mean not inhabitants of the village -- I mean from other villages -- and also many officials from other districts came to Hirschfelde and changed the whole character of my native village completely. form. They became more and more evident. At that time, when I was a small boy, being well acquainted with the inhabitants of my village, as I have already said, and having close contacts with these inhabitants, I became very interested in these administrative authorities which, of course, I saw with the eyes of youth. I think that already at that time the psychological basis in myself was so that later on I should become more and more eager to work in administration, but this only took shape later on when I studied and when I received my professional training.
Q You therefore studied law and political science. When and where did you study? science in the University in Leipzig. There, in 1930, I passed my first legal examination.
Q Where did you receive you practical training? the time, working in several law courts, local courts, district courts, courts of appeal, as well as in my own practice as a lawyer.
Q When did you pass your state examination? examination.
you joined the NSDAP, did you not? What were your reasons, at the time, for joining the NSDAP? development. In my home politics were not discussed. My father was only interested in his work. The first initiative to be interested in political problems I received through the special conditions which I have already explained, the conditions in my native village. I have already said that the people of my environment at the time were very close to me. I was in contact with them through the children of my own age in elementary school. I knew their parents and their brothers and sisters, and I was in close daily contact with them. Through the increasing industrialization of my native village and the district, the social structure of this district also changed. This had, as its consequence, that from now on even political differences were brought up which until that moment had never appeared. They developed now so fast that they influenced public life most severely, and they led more and more towards terrific tensions. These events impressed me very deeply. I might almost say that at the time they shook me very deeply. Political propaganda influenced public life and it caused enmities among people who were very close to me, even touching individual families.
May I just finish this? I may say in order to illustrate what I have just said, I myself saw at the time that playmates of mine suddenly, without any evident reason, parted from my sister and myself and withdraw. The actual reason was nothing but this: their parents not wanting to be suspected of having given away the unity front of the proletariat and did not want their children to play with other children of other classes, of middle class parents. But this wonderful thing I remember, that most of these children and their parents, after a short while, put down their reticence and their reserve and parents again quite openly took up contact again with my father who had always been in such close contact with the population itself and discussed matters with him as they actually were.
district at the time of the November Revolution in 1948 and the following years? agitators the industrial population disintegrated. I would almost rather say, the industrial workers disintegrated into a kind of intoxication. The class struggle of the proletariat, the dictatorship of the proletariat, the elimination of the bougeois or middle class, and all these slogans influenced the working population very much. Meetings, propaganda speeches, mass demonstrations took place in turn and created a psychoses which did away with all inhibitions. I myself experienced at the time that citizens were taken from their apartments and ill-treated. I myself saw the general director of the large power plant of Hirschfelde was ill-treated and wounded and thrown into the Neisse River. Of the other accesses and acts against the property I do not want to speak of now. I myself at the suggestion of third persons, as a boy had to warn people who were in danger in order to save them from an such terror acts or ill treatment by incited elements with which they were threatened. I am thinking in particular case of the owner of a factory, and the came of a farmer, and the case of a dentist. I believe very few boys have had such a vivid political lesson concerning the consequence of Communist activities. Nobody has ever learned as much about it as we did when we were children. riots under Communist leader Hoelz?
A Yes. Hoelz himself was never in Hirschfelde himself but the wave of his terror acts influenced also my own home district which was a very favorable ground for this slogan activities. Currently events took place of tremendous extensions during this time, happenings of the kind I have already described but they were also regular organized riots of large extensions of a proper insurgent character.
Hirschfelde was occupied by the Army for more than a year and a quarter in order to be able to master all the riots and unrest that took place. Explosions of railroad installations were the order of the day in order to prevent the military from occupying the village. The bricket factory of the coal plants was also blown up. This is only an example of conditions prevailing at the time. Conditions were such that no citizen was safe. I think the work "buergerlicher" does not quite give the right meaning. What I actually mean is a citizen who likes order and place. The Bolshivist or Communist did not shrink from attacking member of Marxist parties. I myself saw, in my own home country and the twon where I visited high school, that formations of Marxist state and members of the Social Democratic Party were ill treated and in two cases were actually murdered. at the time? youth. I have also said that this considerably shook me psychologically. I could not imagine this hatred with which individual fought individual. Party political ideas I did not have at the time. On the contrary the Parties, or at least as I saw them at the time and as they actually were, fought each other and tried to tear each other down without any recognizable positive program. At least, as a boy sees it who loves his native country, his parents, and a native village and who looks upon everything with idealism or at least who wants to look at it with idealism.
Q Did you at that time begin to become active politically? always meant a lot to me.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Riadiger, what year as this and how old was the witness at the time?
is, 1920 to 1922.
THE PRESIDENT: And how old were you?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, let us move along because that was an adolescent age and let us learn what you thought as an adult. BY DR. RIEDIGER: following years? it was 1922, I joined the Jung Deutsche Orden. The causes for this were that the Jung Deutsche Orden, Young German Youth Group, was not based on any Party and was a collective movement or at least, it promised to be such, and in this movement I saw the possibility to form a bond from human being to human being. However, I left the Jung Deutsche Orden again in 1923, perhaps the beginning of 1924. At that time almost our whole local group left because the leader of this organization, Maraun, seemed to deviate from the original idea and tried to afiliate this movement to a political Party.
studies, or what did you experience politically? on the one hand, and on the other hand, I saw the strong contrast, I became acquainted with the craving for extreme luxury and moral baseness, especially, I got to know it's large extant, the consequences of communist extreme propaganda. I currently saw demonstrations or at least it was demonstrated to me what an extreme danger Bolshevism had become. I may point out perhaps this one thing. On an Easter Sunday, it must have been in 1929 or 1928, I witnessed the invader of a police officer. It was Police Captain Galls, I was close to the spot where it happened. Augustus Square in Leipzig, I was only a few steps away from the spot. It became known that Galle himself was a Marxist, and in spite of this, the Communists by the incited mob trampled him to death and played football with the pieces of his uniform. examination just before you joined the NSDAP? saw the same thing. Plauen had been very peaceful and a flourishing industrial town, but at the time the workers were unemployed and as a consequence of this a strong communist element was prevailing. So was the case in many other places. This was the time when 32 political parties confronted each other and seven million unemployed workers ran around idle.
Q When did you join the NSDAP?
A During those years I joined the NSDAP__that was in 1931. As I have already said, that was a well-considered step which I took. During the time of my studies, during the time of my referendar, I saw that the general misery affected now even such people who had been reasonable and careful up to that moment.
2 Dec 1947_M_MSD_5_2_Spears (Hilde) BY THE PRESIDENT: step on your part. Had you read the platform of the national socialist party before you joined?
A No, Your Honor. During that time then when I had recognized communism had become an immediae danger and when it was a certainty for me that there was only one decision on could take either to become a communist oneself or to oppose this movement which, occording to my experience, could only mean chaos. stood for and you chose that against communism?
Q Well, had you read "Mein Kampf"?
A I had not read "Mein Kampf" before. I read "Mein Kampf later on in the year 1932.
Q Well, when you read "Mein Kampf" in 1932, you were already a member of national socialist party? party?
PRESIDENT: Very well. Proceed. BY DR. RIEDIGER:
Q Did you held any office or function within the party? at any time. My short activity in the places of my legal training meant that I could not accept such offices. But in spite of this I expressed openly my political conviction. I advocated for it and I propaganda for it. I have already said, my joining the NSDAP was not the result of a momentary decision but a decision which I had well-considered before, a step which I had taken and a 2 Dec 1947_M_MSD_5_3_Spears (Hilde.)
step which was based on my experiences and the happenings that I had seen. From 1936 I belonged to the local group, Braunes Haus, Brown House, in Munich. So from that time onwards, I had no personal or actual organizational connection with the political organizations of the party. was being issued after a service of five or ten years? training, after you had passed your state examination, what did you do--after you passed this state examination? the General Interior State Administration, but at the time conditions were such that a great number of people applied so that one only was put down on a waiting list, and this happened in my case. In order to make use of the time until my employment in the Interior State Administration and to use it in my further task, I applied for a job of counsel assessor in the municial administration in Doebeln.
Q How long were you employed there?
A I got this job and I started in February 1935. In this position I remained from July '35. Originally I had not had the intention to remain in this position permanently or to regard it as a permanent position, therefore, the contract said that within one year I would be able to decide to leave this job if I felt so inclined or if I had the possibility to enter a State Administration career. On the other hand, however, I was told that after one year I might be able to apply for the vice mayor office of this town. My activity in Doebeln was ended after a very short time, that is, in July 1936, caused by events which were of decisive importance for my future professional development.
As I have already said in my curriculum vitae, they were of decisive importance in a negative sort of way == in a negative sort of way, because for years ahead they hindered my further professional training.
Q.- Of what nature were these happenings?
A.- Shortly after I had started my service in Doebeln, a dispute started between Dr. Dennicke, the mayor, and the local party, the Kreisleiter, district leader, Baer. It was a very severe dispute which took very serious shape eventually. This dispute was about the basis clarification of administrative function, even of institutional questions, The subject of the debate was the following, how much authority the Kreisheiter was entitled to, was he authorized and justified to deal with municipal activities and to use his authority in such sphere. The district leader had taken over authority or at least he tried to do so, which was not in compliance with clean and orderly administration. There were also personal reasons, a sort of craving for power which he had and intrigues and attacks on the mayor were in the order of the day.
Q.- What was your attitude in this dispute?
A.- For me, as lawyer, as an official, a municipal official who could look into the files it was not difficult to find out about the facts of the ease and the real background of the dispute and to recognize these reasons. It was equally clear to me that municipalities can only be administered properly according to actual constitution if such power acts on the part of the party authorities would be prevented in the future. Therefore, I took sides with the mayor and the town administration... of course I took up their side. The mayor fought because of its basic importance, and he fought to the last consequences, and took the matter up to the highest authorities asking for his right, to be iven the authority for the municipal administration. I myself was of the opinion at the time that just then at that time when such disputes were comparatively new, a basic clarification would have to be brought about. The Kreisleiter, district leader, tried with all means at his disposal to change my mind and he went rather far.
all his attempts rejected quite consciously. During the course of this dispute, I think it was Berlin the mayor contacted authorities of the SS, and one day he asked me whether I would not be prepared, with help of the file material, to write report, a factual report about the true conditions- to write such a report in fact for the SS. He had been asked for such a report by the SS authorities. Dr. Dennicke thought it would be a good idea if I would make out such a report as a comparatively new man in the municipal administration.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Riediger, do you think it is necessary to go into such painstaking detail on this episode?
Dr. RIEDIGER: your Honor, if I may take liberty to point out, this dispute, and the witness will come to that immediately, with the reasons for his taking over a job in the SD. Because of this report the defendant first contacted the SS, that is, the SD and, therefore, I think it is significant,and it will show the conditions as they were.
THE PRESIDENT: well,I think that is entirely in order. I would suggest however, that when you start into the woods you would tell us just what point you are aiming at because otherwise we are wondering just what is going to happen.
DR. RIEDIGER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. By DR. RIEDIGER:
Q.- What use did this report find which you made out?
A.- I may perhaps add one thing. Until that moment I personally had no connections or relation to the SS. At the time I was the in the NSKK or at least the NSKK had been formed from the motorized SA.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, what is the NSKK? That is a part of the woods that I am not familiar with.
DR. RIEDIGER: That is the National Socialist motorized corps of the party.
It included all civilian owners of cars and drivers, It was a formation of the party and does play a great part here.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
THE WITNESS: The report, through an indiscretion of a secretary was put into the hand of the Kreisleiter, the district leader, and the result of this was that I was released from the municipal administration, caused by the Kreisleiter, and that by a decree of the Kreisleiter I would be excluded from the party, This exclusion from the party was confirmed by the district leader, the gauleiter and, therefore, I was unemployed at the time. At that time it was not possible or at least it would not have been possible for me to get any job as an excluded party member. BY DR. RIEDIGER:
Q.- What did you do when were confronted with this exclusion?
A.- I appealed and I wanted to put the whole matter before the party court. But here again I was confronted with difficulties because one did not want recognize my right to appeal, and at that time an SS man arrived who again bold me what Dr. Dennicke, the mayor, had already told me, namely, that the SS was that authority who dealt with the cleanliness and the order of state and party and had to supervise this. Therefore, they had created their own organization which was still in the development stage and this organization was the SD. In order to deal with this supervisory task, this organization collected reports concerning such happenings as for instance had taken place in Doebeln. In order to see and prevent bad conditions. This was the first time that I heard about the SD and its existence.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Riediger, now that we have arrived at the SD, we have come out of the woods and before we plunge into another forest, suppose we have our recess of 15 minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session,
DR. LINCK (Attorney for the Defendant Ruehl); Dr. President, would you please excuse my client from attendance this afternoon so that he can continue to prepare his own defense?
THE PRESIDENT: I didn't catch the name of the defendant.
DR. LINCK: Ruehl, Felix Ruehl.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, yes, yes. The Defendant Ruehl will be excused from attendance in court this afternoon in accordance with the request of his attorney.
DR. LINCK: Thank you very much, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well
DR. HOFFMANN (Attorney for the Defendant Nosske): I have the same request to make for this afternoon for the defendant Nosske.
THE PRESIDENT: And the some ruling will be made,
DR. KOESSL ( Attorney for the Defendant Ott): May it please the Tribunal, the mother of the Defendant Ott has died very suddenly and I therefore wish to ask you to afford the Defendant Ott on opportunity to attend the funeral of his mother which will take place in Augsburg this afternoon. If the Tribunal would be kind enough to allow the defendant to leave the court room immediately, and would five him an opportunity to be taken to Augsburg immediately, he would still be able to attend the funeral there this afternoon.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Koessl, the Court has already been informed of the misfortune in Defendant Ott's family and we have already made the necessary arrangements. The Military Commander of the District has been informed and transportation and the necessary military guard will be supplied. The Defendant Ott will now be excused from attendance in court for the remainder of the day so that he may be taken to Augsburg to attend his mother's funeral and then will be returned in due course to Nurnberg.
DR. KOESSL: Thank you very much indeed, Your Honor.
Dr. RIEDIGER (Attorney for the Defendant Haensch) May I continue?
THE PRESIDENT: Please do. BY DR. RIEDIGER:
Q.- Dr. Haensch, how was it that you became an employee of the SD?
A.- As I have already stated, to begin with, I had no opportunity to find a job any where. I had no means of my own and I did not wish, nor was I able, to live with my parents. I tried everywhere to get a job and I always failed. into such a situation, made me an offer. It offered me to join the SD Oberabschnitt in Chemnitz which was at the time being organized and there I was to be placed in charge of legal affairs. intelligence. I had nothing to do with that, nor was I expected to do so. I would not have agreed to undertake any such functions for the reasons that I was always interested in obtaining a position in the Government administration and I continued to adhere to that aim of mine. I refused a full time position in professional Party Work, as such and I had already refused it. For example, after I had taken my examination as an assessor I had had an offer to work for the German Labor Front as a lawyer and that offer I had refused. At a later time I refused a similar offer to take a position, a full time position, in the Party. It was in 1940 when I refused that offer. August, 1935, I joined the Chemnitz office as a civilian employee. To bein with, I nothing but a civilian employee and this was considered only a transitional solution by me and I was given assurance that at any time I could leave again as soon as an opportunity arose for me to change over into the career of these aims.
2. The proceedings to exclude you from the party had in the meantime come to an end, and what was the result?
A. No, the proceedings excluding me from the party -I want to say, the decision about the exclusion from the party -was in effect for more than a year -- a year and three months, in fact; -- naturally, I wanted to let justice. I was at that time convinced, and I am convinced now, that I had merely intended to serve a good cause, and that I had served for the cause of purity; therefore, I faught, and I was more or less on my own, fighting out this case, and I took it as far as the highest party court, that in to say, the Supreme Reich Court when, in August 1935, I joined the SD I was thrown out of the Party. The Supreme Reich Party Court in the late summer of 1936 revoked the decision to exclude me from the Party - that is to say, a decision to revoke was not made, but the Reich Party Court referred the matter back to the Gau Party Court, saying that the report had been made by the Supreme party Court and that all pre-conditions to exclude me from the party were looking. Now, the Gau Party Court was being asked to re-examine the matter. All the same, the Gau Party Court - apparently on the instigation of the Gauleiter, punished me. The decision to exclude me from the party was revoked, but I was punished... that is to say, I was reprimanded. There were two kinds of reprimands. -- I don't know which kind it was... any way, it was the more serous reprimand, and that reprimand was unto--d in the Party Court. Furthermore, the Gauleiter, on his own initiative, made a ruling which was grotesque even at that time. He ruled that I was to be prohibited, for three years, from taking employment in Party work.
Q. In the meantime you have received these documents from another quarter?
A. At that time, in 1935, the Gauleiter had actually
Q. That judgment by the Gau Party Court, did it exercise any influence on your future career?
A. Yes, it did, inasmuch as - to begin with - I did Internal Administration.
In that connection I had a talk upon me by the Party was uphold.
Therefore, I was advised I was advised to let a certain amount of time elapse.
I hopeless.
Therefore, for the time being I remained as a legal adviser with the oberabschnitt at Chemnitz.
On the 1st of May 1936 I joined the SS formation of the SD.
There formality.
I did not have to submit any particular documents submit curriculum vitae.
On the 1st of November... just a second - just a second.
.. 1936... In 1936 I came to the SD Main Office; I was transferred there again as a legal expert.
time. That, again, was the predecessor of the later Department COURT II CASE IX One of the RSHA.
Q. Were you satisfied with the work you did in that office?
A. No, that work did not only not satisfy me - but at the RSHA and at the SD Main Office I never felt happy or at home. As I saw it, this was a different world, and according to my inner inclination as such, and according to my inner professional inclinations, I did not fit into that world. I was removed from the work of the other offices - I was isolated from it. I must say I was not interested in their work, either, and therefore I had no contact with them. I suffered greatly form the fact that my own professional plans had come to naught. I suffered from the continued obstacles which had been placed in the way of the career in the Administration service which I had planned for myself, I wanted to work in some administrative agency which was close to life and close to the people in order to now work in according with my inner inclinations. Again and again that opportunity was denied to me. Also, there were personal disappointments in the human field. As I have pointed out here, I tried again and again to leave that work.
Q. Did you take any serious steps before the war, or during the war, to leave that work?
A Yes, I made continuous attempts to get out. I think I can say I started to make such attempts from the day I was transferred to Berlin, until the end.
Court No. II, Case No. IX.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q When was the day that you were transferred to Berlin? 1936, your Honor. I cannot tell you at the moment whether it was the 1st of December or the 1st of November 1936.
Q Let's suppose it was December 1st, - taking the latest date 1936. why couldn't you have left on December 2, 1936?
A Mr. President, that was connected with the proceedings against me, which had been instituted by the Party Court. I have already testified that immediately after the decision to exclude me from the Party had been revoked - and that happened in the late summer of 1936 - immediately at that time I went to see my superior - I went to Berlin.
Q Well, now, just a second... We are going into those woods again. Now, you have this job, and you are very dissatisfied with the job - you are very unhappy. It is not your world, and all your great hopes have crashed at your feet. Now... why can't you leave? position which would have been in accordance with my professional inclinations, that is, to join the Administrative service. I had planned to enter a career in the government Administration, and that had become impossible. found this world better than any other world that you could migrate to... is that right?
A No, your Honor, I don't understand that.
Q All right. You are working in the SD... is that right... in December 1936?
Q Right. And you are very dissatisfied... is that right?
Court No. II, Case No. IX.
have turned to ashes... is that right?
Q Right. Well... why didn't you leave... this world which is so cold and bleak... namely, the SD?
A Mr. President, I believe there is a misunderstanding. I could not leave.
Q Why -- Now tell me why you couldn't leave. That is what I want to know! would have been in accordance with the aim I had set for myself.
Q Yes... yes... so you were not bound to this job in any way-officially or physically, you were free to leave if you chose to leave, weren't you? a job, or an opportunity, for me to transfer to the Administrative career offered itself, no difficulties would be put in my way. That is what I had been told.
Q Well, you weren't under any military orders which prevented you from leaving, were you? Were you?
A Mr. President, I believe-
Q Well, answer that question!
A It wasn't as if I could have left that job -- as if I could have run away form it just any old day. notice that you were dissatisfied and unhappy in this work, and that you desired to leave, and on a certain day take your hat and walk out. was there anything which prevented you form during that?
A No... that isn't how it was. No... that wasn't how it was! I couldn't have left just any day.
Q Why couldn't you leave? Why couldn't you leave? Now, please answer that question. Why couldn't you leave, since you were so unhappy there? Did your bosssay that you couldn't leave?