0930-1630, Justice Michael A. Musmanno, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
Military Tribunal II is now in session. God save the United States of America, and this Honorable Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Koessl, yesterday you addressed an inquiry to the Tribunal regarding the Christmas holiday season. The question arose during our deliberation on the subject whether the Tribunal should be in session on the Monday and Tuesday preceding Christmas, and we have come to this conclusion, that is if counsel desire to use the complete fortnight, the two-week period between December 22 and January 3 of the new year, that perhaps time would be gained, rather than lost by letting them have that fortnight complete and uninterrupted in their work of research and preparation for the final briefs and arguments, and so forth. all the Tribunals will recess on the 24th anyway, it has been thought reasonable to hold court on the preceding two Saturdays which would be December 13th and December 20th. Will it be agreeable to defense counsel generally to hold court these two Saturdays so that you can have the two days, Monday and Tuesday?
DR. KOESSL: Yes, I am convinced that the defense counsels would prefer that, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Very well, the Tribunal will announce that we will be in session all of this week, including Saturday, the 13th, and all of next week, including Saturday, Dec. 20th, and then the Tribunal will adjourn for the Christmas and New Year holidays and reconvene on 5 January 1948.
DR. KOESSL: I thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: And I trust that all defense counsel will really make use of that time in the preparation of document books, briefs, and even final argument. There is no reason why they should wait until the very completion of the testimony in order to prepare their summations, because we always have before us that barrier of the translation section, and we must get through that barrier, and the only way to get through is to have the documents ready in plenty of time so that there will not be any undue congestion at the termination of the case. Very well.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
DR. KOESSL: May I now continue with my direct examination?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
DR. KOESSL: My attention was drawn to the fact yesterday that in the translation one place was not quite correctly translated. The witness testified that on the 1st of October 1935, he became director of the SD sector Lindau, that in this capacity six people were under his direction, who, at various places, worked for the SD in an honorary capacity outside of their own jobs. These were not six big offices, but these were six people at various localities who worked for the SD outside of their own jobs.
THE PRESIDENT: Your statement will appear in the transcript and in that way bring about the necessary correction.
DR. KOESSL: Thank you. BY DR. KOESSL: your activity during the war. Will you please state once more where you were active during the war? sector in Neustadt an der Weinstrasse, that is in the Rhine Palatinate. Shortly after taking over this office the former SD sector of Saar bruecken was dissolved as such and was incorporated into my sector.
In July, 1941, I moved my headquarters from Neustadt to Saarbruecken. At the some time I took up quarters in Lorraine because there were no apartments in Saarbruecken.
Q Did you ever get any police training?
Q Were you everractive in the Gestapo?
Q Were you ever active in the criminal police?
Q What foreign assignments did you have?
A I was in the Sudetenland in the fall of 1938; in the spring of 1939 I was in Bohemia; in the spring of 1940 I was in Norway; and in 1942 I was in Russia. were you subordinate there? and SD, in Kolin in Bohemia and in Bergen, which is in Norway.
Q When were you in Bergen in Norway? Norway? measures against Jews or members of other races? Norway, and against the religious activity of peoples of other faith?
Reich by force? country and exploiting it? or Saarbruecken? the reports to the Office III of the RSHA in all domestic spheres and to concern myself with these problems in an informational capacity. Saarbruecken, after the 1st of September, 1939, remain the same as the ones before the war? the foundation of the Office III the informational service in the so-called enemy spheres was dropped, that is, it was transferred to the State Police. the war did not belong to Germany? the SD matters for Lorraine in the staff of the command of the Security Police and SD in Metz, Lorraine. In the fall of 1944 the former French Department Lorraine came under my sector. in the old Reich area? tion?
A No. That was purely a policematter with which the SD was not concerned.
Lorraine? but actually on my own responsibility. by the population of Lorraine? Province of Moselle, without my request declared himself ready and prepared to certify my conduct in Lorraine during my three years stay there. He got in touch with my relatives on his own, and he sent off a certificate. In an accompanying letter to my mother of the 10th of April, 1947, he writes expressly that he is sending off the certificate without it being requested and that it concerns my conduct during the four years of work in Lorraine, and that it relates about my conduct. He is asking that this certificate be given to the British authorities. I was then in a British internment camp. After I heard from my mother about the certificate, a few weeks later I confirmed to him the receipt of this paper, and dated the 21st of June, 1947, he wrote me a letter to Nurnberg. May I quote two sentences from this lengthy letter? At one place he says: "Even I always said to my wife how Ott must be pretty well off as far as his conduct is concerned, because he helped wherever he could." At the end of his letter he says: "I hope that we will see you again with us. You are welcome and you don't have to fear anything." I am reading this in this bad German because he is writing in French. "All right, if you can go where you have spent four years within the National Socialist State. This is surely not permitted to all your colleagues."
Document Book II. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Was this letter written in July of 1947?
Q I didn't quite understand the reference to the national socialist state. of April 1947. phrase, "national socialist state" appeared?
Q I didn't quite grasp the connection between that phrase and the rest of the sentence. Just in which way was that phrase used - he said something about the four years, and then he used the "national socialist state".
A He writes as follows, "It is nice if you can go back to a place where you have spent four years in the national socialist state."
PRESIDENT: I see. He is referring to the past. Very well. Thank you.
THE WITNESS: He means the four years of the German occupation. This is the former French province Lorraine. BY DR. KOESSL:
Q How long were you director of the SD sector, Sarbruecken?
Q How did your transfer to Russia come about? RSHA in Berlin on duty. When I was there I went to see the chief of Office I, that was Gruppenfuehrer Streckenbach at that time, who used to be my superior, and I asked him to release me for the Waffen SS or the Army since I did not want to remain at home any longer. I didn't want to stay at home, while others were engaged in hard fights.
12 Dec 1947_M_MSD_3_2_Spears (Lea) In addition, because of my SD reporting, I had repeated severe disputes with Gauleiter and Reichcommissioner Buerckel. Streckenbach told me when I saw him that there was no prospect of releasing me for the Waffen SS or the army, but perhpas I might be employed in the Einsatz. He could make no promises, but he would speak about it to the other office chiefs and would notify me later on. officer of Sonder-Commando 7B? letter from the RSHA by mail. This special delivery letter was dated, Berlin, 24th of January 1942. letter, and this is the same letter which is referred to in Book IIIB, No. 4747, Exhibit 123, page 6. What did you know at that time about the missions of the Einsatzgruppe and the Einsatz and Sondercommandos and of the security police and SD in Russia? and Einsatzkommandos and Sondercommandos were in existence. At that time I had not met any comrade who was in Russia.
DR. KOESSL: One moment, this is on page 6 of this document.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, that does not correspond with our 6--do you know what page it is in the English Document Book?
DR. KOESSL: Unfortunately, I could not tell you.
THE PRESIDENT: What is the document number?
DR. KOESSL: Page 70 of the English Document Book.
PRESIDENT: Yes. Thank you very much. Proceed. BY IR. KOESSL: Russia, and the agencies at home did not get any reports from the Einsatz area through the RSHA. First of all, I thought of a similar activity as it existed in Norway or in other areas.
Russia? BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Pardon me, Dr. Koessl, did they have Einsatzgruppen in Norway? were subordinate.
Q I asked yet whether in Norway they had Einsatzgruppen?
A I think they weren't called "Einsatzgruppe" at that time. that it was something different from that they had in Norway because a different terminology was used? time to me. did it not?
THE PRESIDENT? Very well. Proceed. BY DR. KOESSL:
Q Where did you report in Berlin before leaving? morning of the 5th of February 1942 I arrived at the RSHA. I wanted to report to Streckenbach before leaving. I had waited about threequarters of an hour in the ante-room, and finally got to see Streckenbach. I had spoken to him about two minutes when the telephone rang. He was speaking in the telephone and asked me once more to wait in the anteroom. After a very short time, after two minutes, I was called back into Streckenbach's office and he told me that he would have to go to a Ministry immediately, it was a long distance, and I would not have to wait for him, and I should go to the next house. Prinz Albrecht Streot 9, where I was to see a Mr. Schrefeld who had the travel orders for Russia and the railroad ticket.
according to which all Jews were to be killed? either officially or privately, nor did I get any instructions about my activity in Russia. arrived there? depot at Warsaw, received a vehicle there, and left for Smolensk by vehicle. I arrived in Smolensk on the 15th of February 1942, and there I reported to the chief Einsatzgruppe B, the then SS Oberfuehrer Naumann, for duty.
Q How long did you stay in Smolensk, and for what purpose? days for my information. I was with the then SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Hennicke, who was the chief III there, and he acquainted me with the SD informational material in order to got a picture of the political, economic, and cultural structure of the Soviet Union. Furthermore, I reported to Chiefs I and II, where I acquainted myself with the headquarters of the commandoo its strength, its leader and the army to which the commando was attached. I also found out about accomodation, about signal equipment, et cetera.
Q What instructions did the chief of Einsatzgruppe B give you? explained to me the area and acquainted me with the second armored army, commanded by General Schmidt, to which the commando was attached. As my primary mission, Herr Neumann designated to me the roar security of this army together with an intensive partisan reconnaisance. He told me that the trouble the partisans were causing was increasing more and more lately and had become a vital danger in the army area. He also told me that a close corporation and exchange of the information was necessary with the army and the Ko-Rueck, that is short for commanding general of the rear army area.
Furthermore, he told me that I should got my instructions from Hennicke about Hennicle's special mission. That war an SD job entitled. "Research about the actual life in the Soviet Union". Finally, Oberfuehrer Neumann told me that the commissars and officers who had been with the commando thus far were to remain with me in the future because it is my first independent commando leadership and my first police job. Rausch, the commando fuehrer until then was to acquaint me with the job for about three weeks and then Oberfuehrer Naumann would then come to Bryansk to the headquarters of the commando in order to bid farewell to Rausch and to instal me as the commanding officer.
Q. Was not the fuehrer order made known to you about the killing of the Jews in Smolensk?
A. No, Strangely, not one single word either from Oberfuehrer Naumann nor from Hannicke or of the other two officers I spoke of.
Q. Didn't you read any reports about it?
A. No, the SD reports said nothing about a fuehrer order or Jewish executions.
Q. When and where did you reach Sonder-Commando 7B?
A. On the 18th or 19th of February 1942 I reached Sonder-Commando 7 B in Bryansk.
Q. How large was this commando and how was it divided up -how was it organized?
A. The commando had approximately a hundred men, about 50 officers and men came from the state police and the criminal police, 10 came from the SD, about 10 to 15 drivers came from the security police and the same number of drivers who were on an emergency war status. Then there were two signal men. The organization was as follows. In each town, Kursk and Orel there was a sub-commando.
Q. Wasn't there one in Bryansk, too?
A. Bryansk had the headquarters of the commando and also the local subcommando.
Q. Were any subcommandos dissolved, transferred, or newly activated during your time?
A. Yes, about the end of March the subcommando Kursk was dissolved because the Kursk area was placed under another army. Furthermore, around May or June I set up the commando in Karatschew and shortly afterwards about the end of June, on instructions from the army, I sent a small detachment to Lokot -- L-O-K-O-T.
Q. How many officers did you have in Sonder Commando 7 B?
A. 8.
Q. To what branches of the SS and police did the officers of your staff and those in the subcommandos belong?
inspector of the state police. Chief 3 was an Obersturmfuehrer of the SD. Chief 4 was a Hauptsturmfuehrer, Captain, and a police inspector of the state police at the same time, he was the commanding officer of the subcommando located at the same time where the headquarters of the commando was. Further, there was an Untersturmfuehrer who was the motor pool officer. I think he came from the SD or he came from Berlin, I think. The commanding officers of the subcommandos, in as far as there were sufficient in munbers, were police inspectors.
DR. KOESSL: The witness has made a sketch or a chart in order to show his own area, and I would like to submit to the Tribunal photostats of this chart.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Koessl, would you please first indicate on the large map where this area is located?
DR. KOESSL: Yes, Sir. Witness, will you please go over to the map and show where your Einsatz area is?
THE WITNESS: The headquarters of the commando was first in Bryansk, and then at the end of March I moved it to Orel where the headquarters of the army was. Here was the subcommandoo Kursk, which was later dissolved, and the later established subcommando Karatschew was set up a few weeks later in Lokot was south of Bryansk in a large forest.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
the Kommando 7-B on the basis of the chart. in the Army area of the Second Armored Army. That is the area as I have drawn in on the chart. In the East the border is the front line which is shown on the chart by thick lines interspersed with dots. In the South the Army area bordered on the line of Ver Yove Malo Archangelsk. In the west the border runs eastward along the villages Sseredina Buda, Trubtschewsk, Potschep, in the north the line Bytosch Kletnia. from Mr. Naumann. I indicated Kletnia in the northwest of the chart. The border must run where the vertical rod line is. What is left of that line belongs to the Rear Army area, not to my subkommando.
THE PRESIDENT: when you speak of the red line, do you mean actually the color red or the Soviet line?
THE WITNESS: It is marked in by pencil on these photostats.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it is only black and white on ours. Oh, I see.
THE WITNESS: Everything that is left of that line belongs to the Rear Army area, not to my Kommando.
THE PRESIDENT: I see.
THE WITNESS: The area is traversed by the main road Bryansk-Orel and by the railroad on the same line, and this road cuts the area into two parts, into a northeastern one and into a southwestern part. The main towns were Bryansk and Orel where the roads and railroads were converging in a radius. First Bryansk was the headquarters of the kommando, but the end of March, 1942, I moved it to Orel which is about 130 kilometers away from Bryansk. The chart is drawn according to a scale 1 to 1,250,000. One centimeter on the chart represents twelve and a half kilometers in the actual area. This chart shows at various places areas which are marked by criss-crossing lines. These are those areas where members of the Kommando hardly over wont to because there the danger of the partisans was not so great as on the road Bryansk-Orel and its surroundings.
Some areas are dotted. That is the area of the socalled self-administration Lokot which was subordinate to the well-known Russian Kaminsky. The Sonder Kommando 7-B had to concentrate its forces in combatting the partisan and sabotage acts on the road Bryansk-KaratschewOrel. In the front line area the Kommando was active in the towns Schistra near Jagodnija, Krassnikowo and Bolchoff as well as Dumtschino. These are the areas directly at the front. In the south the area between Mokrasi Malo Archangelsk and Nischne Salegosch -- that is at the bottom right -
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Koessl, don't you think it might be more interesting if he points out these places on the map as he relates the story of the actions of his Kommando? It would be more helpful to us, if he gives it to us abstractly, geographically, doesn't convey the image and picture which I am sure you want us to have.
DR. KOESSL: We shall then refer to the map when the witness talks about individual actions.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. I think that would be much more illuminating. BY DR. KOESSL:
Q What communications existed between the subkommandos? or if the roads were not impassable because of mud in the spring, were to be reached by vehicle without any trouble. The Kommando in Lokot which was in the so-called partisan war area could only be reached by going via Bryansk. From Bryansk to Lokot an armored column of the Army traveled about twice a week, and the rail line was guarded by security troops.
Q Did you have any telephone or radio communications? Einsatzgruppe but telephone communications existed via the Army headquarters to every subkommando.
Q How often did you have an opportunity to visit the Sub-Kommandos? kommandos was often disturbed.
dos? and Bryansk. As far as the subkomnando Lokot is concerned, which was about two hundred kilometers away and which would mean a trip of four hundred kilometers both ways. I visited this Kommando three times altogether, once with the armored train of the Army. The trip lasted five days even though the conference in Lokot took only two hours. The second time the General made available to me his airplane, and the third time I flew by plane with Oberfuehrer Naumann -- who I think had become a Brigadier General by this time.
Q Did the assignment area change during your time? away from us and given to an army in the South, and along the front line there were only small gains and small losses.
Q To whom was the special Kommando 7-B subordinate? taneously it was subordinate to the Second Armored Army in Orel.
DR. KOESSL: Your Honor, the witness has also made a chart in order to make clear the various channels of command, and I would like to submit this to the Tribunal because the relationship to the Army is important. two channels, the straight lines, those which are not interrupted, that is, the channel of command of the Security Police, and SD. That is to say, that is the channel of the orders which came through Einsatzgruppe B, or those orders which the Sonder Kommando 7-B passed on to its subkommando. The dotted line is that channel of command the Army used to give orders to the Einsatzgruppe and which were then passed on to the Sonder Kommando or to the subkommandos.
from the Security Police and SD in Berlin, Also from the Higher SS and Police Leader of central Russia, and from the Army, and from the Army group center, and from the Commander of the rear Army area. The Sonder Commando VII-B, which is drawn in as a triangle to the right at the bottom (referring to the chart) received orders or the one hand from Einsatzgruppe-B; on the ether hand from the Second Armored Army, and from the Commander of the rear Army area of Bryansk.
Q. What orders did you get from Einsatzgruppe-B, and which one did you get from the Armored Army?
A. From Einsatzgruppe-B I received those orders which concerned the activity of the Commandos which were necessary as the situation demanded it. Furthermore, I got orders about the SD reporting, as well as about changes in personnel and changes in the situation. The Second Armored Army gave orders about the Security police measures of most varied types, as well as orders about Partisan warfare, and anti-sabotage acts.
Q. What orders did you get
A. I have some more. Furthermore, the Army demanded reports continuously about the conditions in the civilian sphere, and about the Partisan reconnaisance. Outside the Commander of the rear area, . the Field Commander in Orel also gave orders, and sofar as the subcommanders were concerned, they received orders from the town commandants, and the local commandants.
Q. With the agency of the Army did you cooperate? In order to show these many Army agencies, the witness has made a third and final chart from which the Tribunal can see the great number of Army agencies which cooperated with the Sonder Commando. Just explain this chart briefly?
A. Yes. In this Chart I have drawn in the triangle which re presents Sonder-Commando 1 B, and the three samll triangles below represent the sub-commandos.
Up on top is the Army group center, which gave orders via Einsatzgruppe-B. Then to the right is the second Armored Army in Orel. I mention these agencies which belong to the Staff of this Army, and with which I had to deal directly. First of all the Commander-in-chief himself, second of all the Chief of Staff, third the Department I-A, the Department I-C, G-II; then the counter-intelligence officer, and then the Quartermaster General the Economic Command, as well as the Department for Agriculture. All the way on the right I put in the town and field commandant in Orel, that was General Theo Haman. Then I listed the G-II of the Corps, and below the Combat Division. Then comes Counter Intelligence of the Army. Then comes the Field Police; another Army Police Unit, and the Command Hutzel and the Combat Field Police; another Army Police Unit, and the Command Hutzel and the Combat Command Fuchs. Then the Air Squadron Moelders, a unit of his was in Orel, as well as the Special Unit of the socalled Indigenous people, these were the Russian volunteers who fought against the Russians under German leadership. At the left top we have the Commanding General of the rear Army area, center, in Smolensk, that was General von Schenkendorf, who gave instructions via Einsatzgruppe-B. Then comes the Commending General of the rear Army area, who gave directives and orders directly to the Commando. Then comes the Security Divisions of Counter Intelligence No. 1, the Secret Field Police and which was called G.F.P.; then the town and village commandants, the Administrative Chief, these were administrative districts under the charge of an Army administrative officer. Then the socalled Liaison Staff Lokot. That was the liaison Staff between the militia of Kaminsky and the Chief of the self Administrative Lokot, the Russian Kaminsky.
Q. You have already described this?
A. No, I have not. This Russian Kaminsky had his own militia with the approval of the Commanding General, of about two-thousand men strong. That was the detachment of Russian volunteers trained by German non-comms but led by Russian officers against Partisans.
Q. That suffices, witness. After you arrived at the Sender commando VII-B, did you immediately take over the leadership of the commando?
A. No. I have already said that for about three weeks I acquainted myself with the work.
Q. When did you take over the leadership?
A. The 15th of 16th of March, 1942, the then Oberfuehrer Naumann came to Smolensk and said farewell to commander leader Rausch gave me the command.
Q. In Document Book II-D, that is, in the English page 64, and the German page 57, which is your affidavit of 24 April 1947, NO-2393Prosecution Exhibit No. 67, under No. 3 of this affidavit it reads: "On the 15th February 1942 I was sent to Sender commando VII-B of Einstazgruppe-B. I became commanding officer of this commando and successor of Obersturmbannfuehrer Rausch." End of quote. When you were interrogated by Mr. Wartenberg, did you mention to him the time that you spent in acquainting yourself with the work?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you also tell him that you did not finally take over the commando until three weeks later?
A. Yes. I told him in great detail about my information in Smolensk, and I told him about the way in which the commando was handed over to me by Naumann.
Q. How long did you lead the Commando VII-B?
A. I was in charge of the Sonder Commando VII-B from the 15th or 16th of March until the 27th or 28th of January, 1943.
Q. In what periods of time between the 15 March 1942 and the end of January, 1943, were you prevented from conducing the leadership of the Commando?
A. The leadership of the Commando can be divided up into three phases. The first period -
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Koessl, you are now going into a more active phase of the narrative. Suppose we take it up after our usual morning recess.
DR. KOESSEL: Yes, Your Honor.
( recess.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. FRITZ: Dr. Fritz for the defendant Fendler. excused this afternoon from attendance in Court, and for you to rule that he report to Room 57, because I want to discuss his defense with him.
THE PRESIDENT: The defendant Fendler will be excused from attendance in Court this afternoon, and the appropriate authorities are hereby instructed he be conducted to Room 57 so he may there confer with his attorney.
DR. FRITZ: Thank you very much, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: You are welcome.
DR. KOESSL: I would like to proceed now.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Dr. Koessl. BY DR. KOESSL:
Q. During what period, witness, between 15 March 1942, and the end of January, 1943, were you the leader of the Commando?
A. The first time, from 27 April 1942, until 3 June 1942; then I was appointed to Einsatzgruppe-B in order to get supplies, a number of articles, and I went to my home country, and to Lorraine. On 27 April I left; the 3rd of June I returned, and on the 4th of June I was in charge again of the Commando.
THE PRESIDENT: I didn't quite catch that?
DR. KOESSL: From 27 April until 3rd June the witness was not with the Commando.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. You mean he was in Germany.
DR. KOESSL: Yes, he was in Germany. BY DR. KOESSL:
Q. Any further interruptions?