The school building alone was not sufficient. Apart from settling people in Praetsch, people were also accomodated in the surroundings in Dueben and Schmiedeberg.
Q What happened in Praetsch? repeatedly, because at the time I was just moving from Hamburg to Berlin. For that reason I am not able to give a detailed report about the activities in Praetsch.
that? I lived in a room of a school for leaders, while my apartment was still in Karlstrasse, in Hamburg. My wife was there still, and about the middle of May 1941, the house and my apartment at Hamburg were bombed, or, rather a bomb fell near on the house opposite, and, therefore, my house was badly damaged. For that reason it was of great importance to me to get my wife away from there, also because of the repeated raids. and to take her to Berlin with me. When the General of the Police, whose name was Keller, was transferred, I was able to take over his apartment in Berlin - Wilmersdorf. Thus, by this lucky chance I was able to carry out my removal from Hamburg to Berlin, and this happened just at that time when I had been ordered to Pretsch. With approval of the Chief of Personnel I was released from being billeted in Pretsch. A decisive faster there also was the fact that I was still training for my new task, which was more important than staying in Pretsch inactive, even if only temporary. I was ready to be called away at any time, of course, and I could be at the collection point within a few hours. My property from Hamburg arrived in Berlin at the beginning of July and about that time I was fully occupeid in looking for my apartment.
Q And when were you actually in Pretsch? the forces, and I had to take part in this inspection. About two days before that I travelled there for that reason, and used that same opportunity to greet the men assigned to me, and to inspect their services.
Q What kind of service was that?
A There was a military training service. Most of the members of the Security Police needed a refresher course. Curing these days training was being conducted for the Armament Service; also secret maneuvers were carried out in order to get the trainees used to the new methods in the maneuvers, as they were no longer used to these. I also remember that the transfer of forces in the area under secrecy was being studied.
The training was done by members of the Waffen--SS, which was also assigned to help there. The second day was completely taken up by inspecting the territory and fixing the dates. return to Berlin?
A I returned to Berlin after the inspection. I had to hurry up now to complete the setup of my apartment, because one could expect to be moved any moment. was made known. You told me that this Decree was not known to you before your assignment, is that correct?
A Yes, that is correct. I only heard about the so-called Streckenbach Decree when Herr Wartenberg on Good Friday of this year interrogated me for the first time. was it not? Can you now explain why you did not hear of this speech of Streckenbach and this Fuehrer Decree? in Pretsch all the time. point? Schmiedelberg, when it was made known on the radios that the German Wehrmacht had crossed the Russian borders. Sofar as I remember that was on a Sunday. That day remained in my memory because on that day for the first time I had my apartment set up completely, and had breakfast with my wife there, when the news was given on the radio. I, therefore, left for Schmiedeberg very soon. That was as far as I remember on 21 June 1941. The march from the collection point took palce on 23 June 1941.
Q How did you know of your commitment?
Shortly before the inspection in Pretsch in the Prinz Albrech Palace in Berlin, this had taken place, the speech was held there under the auspices of the whole Einsatzgruppen Chiefs and the Einsatzgruppen leaders, who were there. However, I am not able to say that they all took part.
Q And what did Heydrich say during this meeting? ly pointed out that the fight which would soon take place would be the hardest and most bitter the German people had ever gone through. In his inspections, in his speech, and in his attitude, he did not leave any doubt about the seriousness of the situation. He pointed out and stated that in the fight to come not only the people were fighting against another people, but for the first time ideology was fighting against another ideology. He also informed us about the huge territory in Russia, and the difficulties of the fighting in this territory. He explained that Bolshevism would not stop from using every means of fighting, as Lenin had already written; emphasizing there in particular the part the partisans were to play, which Lenin and others had written about, and this could not be misunderstood. That every one should be sure to understand that in this fight Jews would definitely take their part, and that in this fight everything was set at stake, and the one side which gave in would be the one to be overcome. For that reason all measures had to be taken against the Jews in particular The experience in Poland had shown this. Ho pointed out that the Security Police in the rear of the Army territory would be exposed to the attacks of the partisans. For that reason he decided to train them in the use of their weapons, and how to be protected by such weapons of the Police and the Waffen-SS. He also explained the subordination system to the Wehrmacht. These were the main points that Heydrich made, sofar as I remember, but I want to emphasize particularly that any words about extermination or final solution were never mentionedhere. Also the socalled Commissar Orders were not mentioned during this discussion, either.
THE PRESIDENT: I assume we are about to take up another phase of the situation, and in view of the fact this might be a good place to recess for the day. The Tribunal will be in recess until tomorrow morning at nine o'clock. Please, remember, at nine o'clock, and will be in session until twelve o'clock, and that will finish the session for tomorrow.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is in recess until nine-thirty hours tomorrow.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 18 October 1947, 0930 hours) of America; against Otto Ohlendorf, et al,
THE MARSHAL: The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal II-A. Military Tribunal II-A is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
DR. DURCHHOLZ (Attorney for the Defendant Schulz): I would like to continue with the direct examination of the witness.
DR. LUMMERT (Attorney for the Defendant Blume): Your Honor, I would like the Defendant Blume to be excused from this morning's session because I would like to prepare his defense with him. Schulz on the witness stand on Monday. I have a few questions to ask him. The reason that I am mentioning this is in case his examination will be finished today.
THE PRESIDENT: If his examination is not finished today, then, of course, you may examine him on Monday, but if his examination should be finished an appreciable period of time prior to the hour of adjournment, we would ask you to do the cross-examination at once, because otherwise, there would be that interval which would not be very satisfactory.
I might ask, Doctor -- How do you pronounce your name? Durchholz?
DR. DURCHHOLZ: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: -- Dr. Durchholz if he anticipates that he will have finished with the examination by noon.
DR. DURCHHOLZ: I don't think that I will finish completely today,
THE PRESIDENT: I see. In which event, of course, you may examine on Monday.
DR. LUMMERT: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Further, Defendant Blume will be excused from attendance in court today and will he escorted from the courtroom.
(The Defendant Blume was excused.)
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed. BY DR. DURCHHOLZ (Attorney for Defendant Schulz):
Q.- Witness, yesterday we were interrupted at a point when you were telling us that you heard a speech by Heydrich in Berlin, in which he spoke about the coming campaign in Russia, in which he did not mention execution, extermination orders or the so-called Commissar order. As I saw from the documents, nevertheless, Heydrich mentioned the Russian campaign more than once. What do you have to say about this?
A.- I only know of his one speech. If any other speeches were supposed to have been held at Pretsch, I can only say that I do not know anything about it, because apart from those days I have mentioned, I wasn't there.
Q.- Is it possible that such a speech is not in your memory any more?
A.- I consider that completely out of the question for an event of such importance I could not have forgotten. Furthermore, my statements and the documents submitted here will show that I could have no knowledge about the order which had been handed down by Streckenbach.
Q.- Can you now tell me, please, how things developed in Pretsch?
A.- The exactness of the dates which I am now going to give you, I cannot absolutely guarantee, since it is only my memory which I have at my disposal. I have no documents. Pretsch and Schmiedeberg started; they were fully motorized. The group to which I was assigned consisted of the so-called "Advance Commandos" 4a and 4b, the Kommando 5, which I was to command, and Kommando 6. The leader of the group was Brigadier General of Police Rasch.
First of all, we went as far as Liegnitz. On the next day we continued to Gleizitz, where we remained for three days, as I remember. Here the Kommandos of the Protective Police joined us. From Gleiwitz, we continued on to Cracow, where we spent one night. On the next morning we continued to Dewitsa. Hwer we garrisoned in the troop quarters. On the 1st of July, about, we reached Radymno at the then new Russian frontier. On the following morning we continued to Lemberg. We reached Lemberg as far as I remember about three days after it was taken. As far as I recall, it must have been about the 2nd of July. There was a large group of people in front of this building, mostly weeping and wailing women. As we found out later on, this was the prison in which their relatives who had been killed were. At the headquarters I found out where I was to be accommodated. It was the building in which the Russian NKWD had been previously quartered. Before that it had been an administration building of the Lemberg Electrical Works. had left, a very great number of Lemberg citizens, Ukrainian and Polish inhabitants of other towns and villages had been killed in this prison and in other prisons. Furthermore, there were many corpses of German men and officers, among them many Air Corps officers, and many of them were found mutilated. There was a great bitterness and excitement among the Lemberg population against the Jewish sector of the population.
DR. DURCHHOLZ: Concerning these incidents in Lemberg, Your Honor, which took place before the German troops, marched into Lemberg, I would like to refer to one of the Prosecution's documents, which I have already seen and read in its photostatic copy, but which has not yet been submitted as a Prosecution Exhibit. This is Document NO-2651. That is an Operational Report of the 31st of July, 1941.
I would like to reserve the right to submit this document as my own later on. Lemberg are briefly mentioned in Prosecution Exhibit 116 in Document Book III-B. This is Document No. NO-4537, on page 32 of the German text, to which I am now referring.
Q. (By Dr. Durchholz): Witness, please continue.
Mr. HORLICK-HOCHWALD: If Your Honors please, the document quoted by Dr. Durchholz was not offered by the prosecution, but, of course, there is no objection on the part of the prosecution that it is offered by Dr. Durchholz and we will furnish him, if he wants it, with a photostatic copy of the document.
Dr. Durchholz has received it.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you intend to introduce that now?
DR. DURCHHOLZ: No, I would like to submit it later with my document book. I have not had it translated, yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
A.- On the next day Dr. Rasch informed us to the effect that the killed people in Lemberg amounted to about 5,000. It has been determined without any doubt that the arrests and killings had taken place under the leadership of Jewish functionaries and with the participation of the Jewish inhabitants of Lemberg. That was the reason why there was such an excitement against the Jewish population on the part of the Lemberg citizens.
THE PRESIDENT: What do you mean by "Jewish Functionaries"?
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, these were Russian Communist Functionaries of Jewish faith.
THE PRESIDENT: They were office holders of the Soviet nation who happened to be of the Jewish race?
THE WITNESS: Allegedly, yes.
A. (Continued) There was also great excitment among the German troops because of members of the Wehrmacht, who had been killed. The Army commander, in agreement with the Lemberg authorities, had decided to set up a militia immediately.
THE PRESIDENT: What was the date of these happenings?
THE WITNESS: My arrival in Lemberg was about the 2d of July, and I said -
THE PRESIDENT: Year.
THE WITNESS: 1941.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
A. (Continued) And Dr. Rasch told us what had taken place. I think I just said that. On the following day, that is the 3d of July, 1941....
THE PRESIDENT: What were the Russians doing there at that time?
THE WITNESS: At our time they were no longer there.
DR. DURCHHOLD: Your Honor, I think I can clarify this doubt. On the occasion of the Polish Campaign, Lemberg, which was then Polish, had been conquered by the German troops and had been occupied by them. Then Germany and Russian concluded an agreement, according to which Lemberg was to go over to Russia. Therefore, in 1941, Lemberg was occupied for the second time by the Germans. Lemberg had then been Russian.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, but by July 3, you had overrun Lemberg, had you not?
DR. DURCHHOLD: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: The German troops had got beyond Lemberg?
DR. DURCHHOLD: In July 1941, the German troops had taken Lemberg from the Russians.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, but I understood you to say that these excesses occurred on July 3.
DR. DURCHHOLD: No.
THE WITNESS: No.
DR. DURCHHOLD: No, it was before the Russian troops left the city. From the document which I shall submit later, you will see that these excesses were committed by the Russians against the Lemberg population before the Germans marched in, about the 25th and the 26th of June, 1941.
THE PRESIDENT: That was prior to Schulz's appearance in Lemberg?
DR. DURCHHOLD: Schulz came to Lemberg only after the German troops had taken Lemberg.
THE PRESIDENT: After the excesses had occurred?
DR. DURCHHOLD: Yes, after the excesses. He saw the results of these excesses with his comrades,
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
A. (Continued) The militia had orders to arrest the Jewish population of Lemberg and also those who were suspected of having participated in these killings. May I add here, Your Honor, that this is a description by Dr. Rasch, which he himself got from the German Army commander of Lemberg. localities. I must add here that a larger unit of the Security Police of Cracow from the Government General had had arrived there and was also informed of these facts. I don't know what missions were given to what units. undertook to carry out the arrests. As far as I was informed, they were carried out as ordered, namely, without using any violence. Non-Jews were supposed to have been COURT II-A CASE IX among these too, and these were also designated as perpetrators or participants.
able to observe that interrogations were carried on uninterruptedly and that part of the RSDS was isolated from another part. As far as I remember, Dr. Rasch made known on the following day that a Fuehrer order had been given, according to which the guilty ones and the participants in these murders, which were against International Law, were to be executed in reprisal and if I remember correctly, in connection with this decree the Army command order was also made known, according to which the political Commissars and Functionaries were to be executed.
Q. Is this a basic order?
A. Yes.
Q. Please give me the exact wording of this order.
A. The order read out by Dr. Rasch was to the following effect: First of all, it went into the position of the Security Police, namely, the security of the operational area was its main position, and the security of the rear Army area. Then it continued about like this: the Fuehrer has ordered in the interest of the combatting troops that all Commissars and all Communist, Functionaries, Spies, agents, saboteurs, and looters be shot immediately, since they operate in the rear of the combat troops and represent a deadly danger. This order was top secret.
Q. Weren't there any details given about this?
A. Yes, Dr. Rasch gave the following explanations: First, the Functionaries set up by the Communist Party, Spies, agents, and saboteurs are chosen fanatics, who would use any means at their disposal to undermine order and to destroy the combat morale of the troops.
The persons used by the Communist party are to be estimated more highly in their value to the party than the members of the Nazi party. The functionaries of the Communist party can only have been given their mission because they have already proved their worth and herewith they are good risks for the Party. They are bound to their mission with their lives because in case of betrayal, or in case of treason, they immediately have to pay with their lives. Second, we have to be especially careful about the Jews. They have entered into an embittered fight. The Jews also are carriers of destructive tendencies in the rear of combat troops. Third, the Russian has announced before all the world that he does not consider himself bound by any international law. And his measures are performed accordingly - and our measures, too, have to be performed accordingly. This was the statement which Dr. Rasch made.
Q How did you accept this order?
A I was under the impression of the Lemberg incidents. Nevertheless, I reacted against this order since I considered it as incorrect; politically incorrect, also. I had serious misgivings, but I knew that in my own disposition I was inclined toward, kindness and I ascribed this conflict to my nature. From the conduct of the enemy as it had been determned, I believed that I had to force myself to a greater harshness, but I hardly succeeded. My inner feelings were against the measures which had been ordered. But when I thought it over conscientiously, and when I left out all feeling, I had to determine that law, and feeling, had nothing to do with each other, I had seen the thousands of murdered people and the many mutilated corpses and I had smelt the odor which lay heavily over Lemberg, and I saw the many weeping men, women and children who were looking for their relatives among the corpses. We always saw people in the street who kept carrying their dead home in imporvised coffins. The soldiers were terrified by the mutilated corpses of their comrades. Therefore, I could see no wrong in the reprisals ordered by the Fuehrer, and in the so-called Commissar Order -- even though I justified this myself, and even though I considered these necessary measures as incorrect.
But I did decide, - and I acted according to it -- to give it my own limits by asking that the guilt be proven in order to exclude any wilfulness. like to go into your disposition -- your opinion about these orderslater. Now please describe the events in Russia - without your personal opinion.
A On the following day the executions took place. They were not in the hands of Einsatzkommando 5. I don't know to what extent the agency of the General Government was used for this. The order for the Lemberg executions was given by Dr. Rasch, and the execution was ordered by him. I personally, on the morning of that day, went into town. When I returned about noon I was informed that I had already been looked for. Einsatzkommando 5 had received orders to continue the executions that afternoon. I immediately reported to the building of the Group Staff in order to speak to Dr. Rasch. His Chief of Staff told me that he was not there. I therefore asked the Chief of Staff to revoke; the order issued to Einsatzkommando 5 since neither I nor the members of my Commando were prepared for such a task. The Chief of Staff answered me that Dr. Rasch had expressly ordered that the Einsatzkommando 5 was to carry out these executions since the other commander was to be relieved. A further conversation was useless. I assembled my men and spoke with them about this order. I told them that this is a reprisal measure ordered by the Fuehrer. I pointed out to the great difficulty of this deed. I demanded that everyone perform it with seriousness and with dignity. I told the officers in the presence of the troops that they were to observe this order carefully and remove anyone, and report about it to me, who would violate this dignity in any manner. I recognized in the serious demeanor of my men how terribly difficult it was for them to execute this order. I gave directives to start immediately in order to use the short time available and give my men their orders.
Every man was to be assigned his place exactly, so that the carrying out of the executions would proceed exactly, and without any loss of time for the victims. At the place, I tell my men once more about the reason for these executions and I pointed out especially that the investigations which had been conducted had determined definitely the crime or the participation in the crimes on the part of the victims in the killings which had taken place in Lemberg.
The bringing in of the voctims was done by another Commando. The burying was done by the Lemberg militia under the supervision of this Commando, Whether any members of the General Government agencies were used here, I don't know. After I had personally convinced myself that a doctor was also present and that everything was carried out conscientiously, I went back to town after the first execution since I already had set down a deadline for our continues march. According to what I remember, five executions were carried out on that day, each time involving about 18 people. First I went to my quarters in order to get my papers. quarters. field where the prisoners had been collected. I went to the window where I saw that some Army unit had gone to this field and was chasing the prisoners around and was mistreating them. Without hesitation I went to the quarters of Rasch in order to inform him of what I saw and in order to ask him to intervene immediately. But he had not yet returned. When I reproached the Chief of Staff for not interfering he told me that it was none of my business to intervene here if the soldiers gave vent to their wrath. In the interest of these tortured people I could no longer carry out any negotiations. I ran to this field and saw two majors of the Army. I asked them to stop this shameless demonstration immediately. Since I was very excited one of them immediately pulled out a whistle and put a stop to this demonstration.
18 Oc t-M-TB-3&4-4-Biolsi (Lea) I had the back gate of the field opened and let all of the prisoners out. I also freed other people who had been destined for execution. In about two minutes the whole field was empty. I could no longer get get hold of either of the two majors -- or the units. They had disappeared just as quickly. I immediately ordered a driver to drive me to the place of execution and to inform them that the executions were finished. There were at least 2,000 prisoners in that field. I was at first terrified myself when I saw this empty field in front of me for I feared that I had dons more in my excitement than I could account for, In the evening of the same day Criminal Commissar, Dr. Krieger looked me up and told me follows: "I warn you, people are saying bad things about you because you concern yourself with matters which are none of your business." I told him that I shall answer for that myself, It is unheard of that Hoffmann did not intervene even though these were prisoners who were under the protection and guard of the Security Police. About one hour after this conversation I reported to Rasch in order to tell him about what had happened. He cut me off with the words that he had already been informed. I was very much surprised that nothing further had happened. On this occasion I received the approval to advance the next day. BY THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment. were released from this collecting field; one part was to be destined for execution, I knew that; what was to be done with the other prisoners, I don't know.
Q What was the date of this happening?
Q You arrived on July 2nd?
A We arrived around the 2nd of July in Lemberg. On the 3d of July, as I have already said, the order of Dr. Rasch took place and now I cannot exactly guaranted the date - it could have been the 4th or 5th of July when these events took place.
by Dr. Rasch and the executions?
Q One day. And wit hin that time the investigations were made as to those responsible for the previous mas s acre?
AAnother Einsatzkommando was responsible for this. They conducted investigations for about two days, and as I have already said, in cooperation with the Lemberg authorities, with the militia, and I could see -- myself did not participate -- tha t interrogations were carried on continuously, and that after these interrogations of the entire number of prisoners on th is field poeple were taken out continuously. HOW many these were, I don't know. I assume that it amounted to about 300 persons.
Q 300 persons that did what? prisoners on this field.
Q 300 persons sched uled for execution?
Q You said 300 people were taken out... but you didn't say why they were taken out. the larger number, and those were the one s who were destined for the executions. That was in the process of carrying out reprisals.
Q Were there any women among them?
A No, not one singl e woman. Only men. place on the 4th, and you have indicated that one day intervened -- what ever the dates were -- be tween the order and the execution, we must conclude that all the inv estigations which were made were made within the period of 24 hours. Is that right?
A. No, your honor. I think it is a matter of 48 hours. I can be mistaken here. I cannot guarantee it exactly. I would remember better if I had participated in the investigations myself. I only cod d give a description of the events, the way I saw them, because I lived in the same building. How these investigations were actually conducted, I don't know, I only point to the fact that a large number of men were executed by another Einsatzkommando.
Q Which one was that, do you know?
Q No, which Einsatzkommando was it?
Q Six?
AAnd parts of units from the General Government. There was a larger Commando which had arrived from the General Government which was already stationed in Lemberg. These units from the General Government followed immediately because they had already been ordered from Berlin, that the old Polish territory which had become Russian, was now to be reoccupied because this territory was to be incorporated into the General Government also. your arrival?
AAS perpetrators?
Q No, no, no; as victims. You say that the Russians had killed 5,000 -- or whatever the number was. Who were the victims -- they were Poles, weren't they?
A They were Ukrainians and Ploles; men and women -- whether there were any Germans among them, I don't know. There were very many German soldiers and men; they were also found killed.
Q German soldiers?
Q Wasn't that Russian territory at the time?
A Yes; it was Russian territory but, your Honor, we were two or three days behind the combat troops, and here it was probably a ma tter of German armed units which had previously been taken prisoners.
Above all, probably air Force officers who had been taken prisoners. Above all, probably Air Force officers who had been shot down.
THE PRESIDENT: proceed,
DR. DURCHHOLZ: I shall Come back to this incident later and I shall submit a document, and I shall bring in an eye witness who can give a description of this and who will say that this is a matter of a large number of German prisoners who were also killed at that time. BY DR. DUHCHHOLZ: lives of those who had been destined for execution?
A Whether that is true for all of these, I don't know because I don't remember what was to happen with these people. I can only confirm it for a part of these people. In any case, I have spared them of any tortures. else you saw as you continued to advance.
not guarantee the dates, we left Lemberg, Since the reads were clodded, we advanced very slowly, and we had to spend the night at Brody. The following day we continued to Dubnew. Here we remained almost for one week. Since the front had come to a standstill in Dubnew similar events had taken place as already had taken place in Lemberg. In the Dubnew prisons there were several hundred people, Ukranians for the most part; women and men who had been killed, and the population again told us that the executions had been carried out by Jewish Functionaries. A priest and a woman who had hidden themselves among the corpses, and who had been saved, confirmed these statements.
THE PRESIDENT: Just for the purpose of clarification, because this phrase is apparently used frequently, the phrase "Jewish Functionaries", let me ask if we are to understand by that phrase you mean officials of the Soviet Government who were of the Jewish Race?
THE WITNESS: Not officials in every case, Your Honor, but any kind of functionaries of the Communist Party who were of the Jewish Faith.
THE PRESIDENT: Members of the Communist Party holding aposition of some responsibility who also were of the Jewish Faith, is that the definition?
THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor. A priest and a woman who had hidden themselves among the corpses, and who had been saved, confirmed these statements. The woman was in the hospital with cuts in the throat from a bayonet; another woman about twenty-four years old could not be heard since she had become insane. The leadership over these executions in the Dubnew prison, according to the statements by these witnesses, was supposed to have been held by the commandant, allegedly, with his daughter: At that time his name was determined, but I can not remember it now. The prisoners had been shot with pistols through the holes in the door. When they had been shot soldiers appeared and stabbed the executed people with their bayonets.
THE PRESIDENT: When you say soldiers, please indicate the nationality of the soldiers?