DR. STAHMER: This quotation is as follows:
"...But it is also clear that if a world power by virtue of her sovereignty can decide upon concluding military alliances of such vast proportions without having misgivings on account of existing treaties, another world power like Germany has at least the right to safeguard the protection of the entire Reich territory by re-establishing within her own borders the natural rights of a sovereign power which are granted all peoples."
Before I will take up the question of an aggressive war I have the intention, if I have the permission of the high Tribunal, to call as the first witness General of the Airforce von Bodenschatz.
THE PRESIDENT:Yes, certainly.
(KARL VON BODENSCHATZ, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows): BY THE PRESIDENT:
QWhat is your name?
AKarl von Bodenschatz.
QWill you repeat this oath after me. I swear by God, the Almighty Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth, and will withhold and add nothing (The witness repeated the oath). BY DR. STAHMER:
QGeneral von Bodenschatz, since when have you known Reichsmarshal Goering?
AI knew Reichsmarshal Goering since June 1918
QIn what capacity did you get to know him?
AI came to know him when he was the commander of the Squadron Richthofen. I was the adjutant of Freiherr von Richthofen who had just died, who had been killed in action.
QAfter the end of the first world war, were you taken into the Reichswehr, at the end of the first world war?
AAt the end of the first world war? I was taken into the Reichswehr as a professional officer and remained from the year 1919 until April 1933.
QWhen, after the completion of the world war, did you start your connection with Goering: did you mean in November 1918?
A I came together with Goering again. I was at Aschaffenburg, at a demobilization of Squadron Richthofen.
I was with Goering at the time and later in the spring of 1919 for several weeks, I was together with him at Berlin. There our paths separated. Then I met Goering for the first time once more at his first wedding and I believe that was in the year 1919 or 1920, I cannot remember exactly. Up to 1929 there was no connection between him and me. In the year 1929, up until the year 1933, I met Hermann Goering here in Nurnberg several times. At that time, I was the Kompaniechef of Infantry Regiment 21 and was stationed at Nurnberg. My meetings with Goering were meant for purposes of old friendship.
QAnd then in the year 1939, you entered the Luftwaffe?
A 1933, I volunteered with Goering at Berlin. At that time, Goering was Reich Commissar of the Luftwaffe and I reported to him as his military adjutant. I remained up until the year 1938; then I was the Chief of the Ministerial Bureau.
QAnd what position did you have curing the war?
ADuring the war, I was a liaison officer between the Commander in Chief of the Luftwaffe and the Fuehrer Headquarters.
QWere you at the headquarters, or where?
AThat varied, sometimes at the Fuehrer Headquarters and then at the headquarters of the commanding chief of the Luftwaffe.
QWhen did you leave this position?
AI left this position on the 20th of July 1944, because I was badly wounded on that day, seriously wounded on that day.
QAnd what was the cause of your being wounded?
AI was present at the plot on Hitler.
QYou were present?
AYes.
QAnd what were your tasks at the Fuehrer Headquarters?
AI had the task to take care of reports on special matters and desires of the Reichsmarshal, to bring them to the Fuehrer Headquarters in the absence of the Reichsmarshal and to see that these requests were forwarded, and then questions from the Fuehrer Headquarters to be forwarded to Goering direct.
Then all proceedings at the Fuehrer Headquarters, as far as they concerned him in his capacity as Reichsmarshal, I had to inform him in plenty of time, that is, not necessarily through official channels,I had to forward this information to him
QDid you take part in the conferences?
AI was just a listener at these conferences,
QFrom what period of time on did Reichsmarshal Goering lose his influence with Hitler?
AFrom my personal opinion and conviction, I can say that Hermann Goering, since the spring of 1933, Goering lost influence with Hitler.
QAnd what were the reasons?
AAt that time, that showed at the beginning of air attacks on Germany, and since that time between Hitler and Goering were differences of opinion which, in a separate period of time were increased, in a subsequent period of time.
THE PRESIDENT:The translation came through, as far as we were able to hear it, that the Defendant Goering, since the spring of 1933, lost his influence with Hitler.
DR. STAHMER:In 1943.
THE PRESIDENT:Go ahead.
DR. STAHMER:May I continue?
THE PRESIDENT:Yes.
THE WITNESS:Even though Goering made tremendous efforts, he could not recapture his influence upon the Fuehrer as he had had it prior to that time, and the outward signs and symptoms of the decreased influence were the following:
First, the Fuehrer criticized Goering mere severely. Secondly, the prior conversations between Hitler and Goering, which had been of large duration, now were markedly shorter, less frequent, and finally ceased altogether. Thirdly, as far as important conferences were concerned, the Reichsmarshal was not called in. Fourthly, in the last months and weeks, there was an increasing tension between Hitler and Goering, and to such a decree that he was arrested.
Q Do you knew about this arrest, and what was the cause?
AI am not exactly informed on this. I can just tell you what I heard. I was at that time at Reichenhall at the hospital. I just heard that Reichsmarshal Goering had sent a telegram to the Fuehrer, and in this telegram, to a measure at least, Goering requested that since he, that is Goering, did not have freedom of action any more, that he might act himself. After a reply to this wire, which was sent by wireless, was sent back to Berlin, there was by Hitler an arrest. I wouldlike to emphasize and inform that that was just his say. I have no proof of any of these statements.
QAnd who made the arrest?
AI cannot tell you about that, because I know nothing about it. I heard that a commando of the SS from Obersalzberg made this arrest.
QAs to Fieldmarshall G oering, did he have in turn any knowledge of the proceedings against him, which had been made on the 9 and 10 November 1938
AGoering had no trial to my knowledge.
QHow can you tell that?
AI can tell that from his demeanor, how he acted after this incident towards me. And he acted in the following manner: When he heard of these things which were made, he could not justify these proceedings, and, further, afterwards, is when he went over to the Fuehrer and complained about the people who had instigated those incidents. Captain Wiedmann, the Adjutant of the Fuehrer, can give you the particulars and the details. Several weeks after this, Goering called in the Gauleiters to Berlin at that time, as he wanted to make clear his attitude as to the incident of on the 9th and 10th; he opposed these wild single actions. He stated them as unjust, as economically unreasonable, and the diminution of prestige in foreign countries, and, former Gauleiter Dr. Veberreiter, who took part in this conference, has already given written testimony.
THE PRESIDENT:Wait one moment. Go on Dr. Stahmer. You can go on. BY DR. STAHMER:
QHave you completed your statement?
A Yes.
QWere you present at a conference which took place in the beginning of August 1939 at Sonke Nissen Koog in Husum, which took place at that time and place?
AI took a personal part in this conference, yes.
QWho was present or assembled there?
ASo far as I recall the following were present: Hermann Goering, Herr Dahlerus, Stockholm, six to eight English, a Ministerialrat in the Government, whose name I don't recall, I was present, and there was an interpreter, Dr. Boecker, who was present.
QCan you tell us about the contents of this conference?
AI cannot remember the words that were said, but as much as I can tell you Goering made the following statement:
THE PRESIDENT:Dr. Stahmer, did the witness say where this conference took place? BY DR. STAHMER:
QPlease repeat.
AAt the beginning of the conference at Sonke Nissen Koog in Husum, that was. BY DR. STAHMER: First, Sonke Nissen Koog, that is sort of a bse, Sonke Nissen Koog in Husum.
QPlease continue. You were going to tell us about the contents, or substance of this conference?
AIn substance, Goering made the following statement: Between English and Germany military connections the relations are very tense. Under no circumstances may this tension be increased, or be intensified, that may, or may not endanger the peace. That welfare, and the economic welfare of both countries can only bloom and function in peace. Germany and Europe are interested to the greatest extent so that the British Empire will continue to exist. Goering emphasized that he himself would use his entire influence for the maintenance of peace. He asked and requested the British business leaders after their return home to use their influence with the vital personalities; that they use their influence for that purpose and for the aims just outlined.
QDid then Reichsmarshal Goering converse with you the fact that the foreign policy of the Reich should be carried out according to this opinion, when on the occasions these conversations took place?
AHermann Goering spoke about these topics many times with me. These conversations took place in the years of 1938 and 1939, especially in that time or period after the Munich Agreement. These conversations took place perhaps in connection with the speech, or perhaps on a special train. Hermann Goering was only of the opinion that the policy of the Reich would have to be conducted in such a way that the possibility of war was not even to be thought of. Hermann Goering was especially interested in elaborating on this topic in a conference with the Gauleiters in the Summer of 1938 at Carinhall. I just recently did mention that Dr. Ueberreiter had testified under oath, especially, and particularly in this connection.
QDid Fieldmarshal Goering before his departure from Munich, 1938, did he speak to you prior to that departure?
ABefore Hermann Goering took his trip to Munich, he said to me to do everything within -- he would do everything in order to effect a peaceful settlement. We cannot have war, and in this sense and substance he tried to effect and influence the Fuehrer, and, accordingly, during the proceedings at Munich he worked for the preservation, and also, decisively for peace.
QHave you finished?
AI have not quite finished yet. When after this conference at Munich he met the Fuehrer, and he said to us spontaneously, "that is peace I want." I have concluded.
QDid he repeatedly converse with you as to this point he was against a war, and what was the occasion for his making this statement?
AWe talked about this topic very frequently. He always said to me, "I was in the first World War in the infantry, and as an aviation officer, and was at the front. I know the horrors of a war, and, therefore, my attitude is so far as possible to prevent the horrors of war to come to the German people. Again my ambition is to solve the conflicts peacefully."
I would like to add that Hermann Goering, according to his inner thoughts and character, was never for war.
Everything was further from him than the thought of a war.
QDid Goering converse with you about the aim, according to his wish, about rearmament which Germany had taken? What were the utterances then and there?
AGoering spoke with me about these matters in the year 1935, after the Wehrfreiheit had been known, and he said that, after several attempts to limit armament, the rearmament of Germany was to be similar to the armament of ether countries, and the aim was to have the same rights as the other great powers and to be able to participate in the politics and policies of the great powers.
QDid these conversations take place after 1935 also?
AYes. Now and then we referred to the same topic, and he spoke in the same manner.
QDid you come to know through Goering just what purpose the Four Year Plan was to serve?
AI spoke with Goering about this matter just casually in the year 1936, and that was after the Four Year Plan had been announced. He told me the following: that in this plan he saw a means to secure for Germany these raw materials which she could not import in peace because of the lack of foreign exchange, or whose import in an emergency would be cut off.
QWhen and on what occasion did Goering give you his opinion on the Russian campaign?
AToward the end of 1941, after the first reverses in the Russian campaign, Goering talked with me about the situation and the fighting in the East. He said at that time Adolf Hitler foresaw a very hard battle in the East, but the reverses, as we have just had them, he did not foresee and did not count on. Before the beginning of this campaign I tried in vain to dissuade Hitler from his plan of attacking Russia. I reminded him that he himself, in his book "Mein Kampf", was opposed to a war on two fronts simultaneously, and, in addition, I pointed out that the mass or the scope of the German Luftwaffe was to be in the East, and England, whose air industry had been hurt, would have a chance to recover and convalesce.
THE PRESIDENT:Would that be a convenient time to break off for ten minutes?
(A recess was taken.)
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has observed that the witness is using notes while giving his evidence.
The ruling which I announced this morning was confined to the defendants and did not extend to witnesses. Nevertheless, the Tribunal will allow the same rule to be applied to witnesses. The evidence must not be read, the crux of the rule being merely to assist the recollection in giving evidence.
Yes, Dr. Stahmer. (Direct-Examination continued) BY DR. STAHMER
QDo you know whether people turned to the Reichmarshal with the request that their relatives should be freed from concentration camps and to help them in their difficulties with the Gestapo?
AIn order to answer that question the Chief of Staff is the person who can answer that question. I myself only heard that such requests had been directed to the Reichmarshal.
QDidn't you personally have to do with these things?
AIn my section I had to do with those requests that were directed toward the Luftwaffe. But they were only requests regarding the imprisonment of German citizens and these were requests that the reason for this imprisonment be given. Otherwise also applications regarding misunderstandings of arrests and also regarding arrests of Jews. Those requests came to me only from the field of activity of the Luftwaffe or from my immediate circle of acquaintances.
QHow were such requests treated?
ASuch requests were treated as follows:
Most of the requests came from the broad masses of the people and were submitted to the Staff of the Reichmarshal. There requests that came from the Luftwaffe fell into my sphere of activity and requests that came from the Reichsmarshal's relatives or friends he himself handled. The Reichsmarshal did not withdraw his help in these cases. In individual cases he asked the Fuehrer personally for a decision.
In all cases that I dealt with help could be given.
QDid you also turn to Goering with requests for help for Jews?
AYes, Jews, and particularly Jews of mixed blood.
QHow were these requests handled?
A T he Reichsmarshal did not deny his help and he gave instructions whenever possible that they should be helped.
QThat was Goering's general social attitude?
AGoering's social attitude was as follows:
His feelings and actions of a social nature, it was his general fueling that he should help those he could. He was always ready to help those who were in need, for instance sick people, wounded, the relatives of those who had been killed in the war, prisoners of war.
Care for the working classes was particularly important to him. Here is an example of this: The introduction of miners' compensation for twenty-five years of steady work -- those who had worked that long should receive twenty thousand marks in compensation. This is one of his most important social works.
Q Did you know of the conditions in the concentration camps?
A.I knew nothing of those conditions.
QWas the Fuehrer Headquarters informed of these conditions or were they discussed?
AIn the Fuehrer Headquarters I heard nothing about conditions in concentration camps. It was never discussed.
QWas the question of the annihilation of Jews discussed?
ANo, it was not.
QNot even in camp discussions?
ANo, not there either. Never were these matters talked about in my presence.
QDid anyone else mention anything, for instance Himmler?
AHimmler never mentioned anything. I simply heard, while I was in prison, that people who had spoken to Himmler on this matter had been told by him.
QThat what you heard was not true?
AThat is false. I myself did not speak to Himmler on this matter.
QDid you know how many concentration camps there were?
AEveryone knew that the camps existed, but not that so many existed. Mauthausen, Buchenwald -- it was only after the war that one found out about these camps and one read it in the paper. I knew of the camp of Dachau because I happen to come from Bavaria.
QDid you ever hear of the cruelties that took place there?
ANo, just last year for the first time. When I took my leave of the Reichsmarshal in the middle of March, 1945, the Reichsmarshal told me at lunch that many Jews must have died and that they would have to pay for that. It was in that way that I heard of any crimes against the Jews.
DR. STAHMER:I have no further questions. I can now turn over the witness to the other Defense Counsel and the Prosecution.
THE PRESIDENT:Do any Defense Counsel wish to ask any questions of this witness?
BY DR. LATERNSER (Counsel for the General Staff and the OKW):
QI have only a faw questions.
Witness, in your capacity as liaison officer of the High Command and the Luftwaffe, you took part in the camp discussions in the Fuehrer Headquarters.
Did you also take part in camp discussions when front line commanders were making their reports to Hitler?
AAt such discussions I did not personally take part. I was, however, present at two discussions in adjoining rooms, once when Field Marshall von Kleist was there for a conference, and the second time when the leader of the Crimea Army was present. After the evacuation of the Crimea, the leader of the Crimea Army was there for a conference, I was not actually present at those conferences, but I heard it in the adjoining room because people were speaking loudly.
I heard that there were differences of opinion between Hitler and the commanders in question. I can say no more on that.
QDid you hear enough that you could got the general gist of these conferences?
ANo, I could not follow the general course of their discussion. I do not know their content.
DR. LATERNSER:I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT:Do any other Defense Counsel wish to ask any questions?
Then, does the Prosecuting Counsel wish to ask any questions?
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:
QMay it please the Tribunal: You are at the present time a prisoner of war of the United States?
AI beg your pardon. Could, you please repeat the question. I didn't understand the question.
QYou are at the present time a prisoner of war of the United States?
AAt the present time I am a prisoner of war of the United States.
QYou have been interrogated on a number of occasions by representatives of the United States?
AI was interrogated several times by representatives of the United States.
Q You have also had a number of consultations with Dr. Stahmer who has just examined you?
AI had several discussions with Dr. Stahmer who as just addressed questions to me.
QThose questions were addressed to you some time ago and you prepared your answers in writing?
AThese questions were submitted to me before and I was able to prepare my answers.
QComing to the subject of the concentration camps and the activities of your department in releasing persons from them, as I understand you, a large number of applications came to the Goering office for release from concentration camps.
AI stated before that the requests that people be released from concentration camps did not come to me but to the staff. I received only the requests in which people requested help because they had been taken prisoner, among them Jews who were about to be arrested.
QWere those applications that did come to you numerous?
AMy sector was only the field of the Luftwaffe. There were perhaps 10 to 20 such applications.
QAnd those applications were from persons who were threatened with imprisonment or had been in prison, or both?
AIn part, people who were already under arrest, and in part, people who were about to be arrested.
QAnd in each case, as I understand you, you intervened to help them.
AOn instructions of the Reichsmarshal, in all cases I helped those that came to me.
QAnd did you know of any other cases that came to the staff in which help was not given to the imprisoned persons?
AI don't know anything about that. I heard from Dr. Witzbach, Chief of Staff, that the requests that came to him were settled in a humane way.
Q Now, were the persons that you intervened for innocent of crime or were you helping people out who were guilty of crime?
AThose were innocent people, those I helped.
QSo it came to your notice that innocent people were being put in concentration camps.
ACould you please repeat that question.
AIt came to your notice that innocent people then were being put in concentration camps.
AHad not been put into concentration camps, but were to be put in.
QI thought you said you intervened for some who had been arrested.
AYes; they were not brought to concentration camps. I will give you a practical example. A comrade of mine, from the Richthofer Squadron, who was a Jew, was arrested by the Gestapo, was not taken to a concentration camp, but first was simply arrested by the Gestapo. His lawyer informed me. I informed the Reichsmarshal of this case, and the Reichsmarshal instructed me to have this ran freed from his temporary custody by the Gestapo. He was not yet in a concentration camp. This case happened in 1943.
QWhat was he charged with when he was arrested?
AHe was arrested because he was a Jew and he had been told that he had offended in some way against morals, in that he met an Aryan woman in a hotel room.
QAnd did you make any inquiries as to whether the charge was true?
AI did not have to make such inquiries because I had no difficulty in obtaining his release. When I called up, he was released and thereafter stayed under the protection of Hermann Goering.
QWho did you call up to get his release?
AThe Chief of the Gestapo, the chief office in Hamburg. I don't know the name. I didn't make the call myself, but my assistant did so.
QSo that the Gestapo would release persons upon the request of Hermann Goering?
A Not from Herman Goering's office, but the Reichsmarshal gave specific instructions that that was to occur, and then it did.
QI thought you said your assistant called up. Did Goering also call the Gestapo himself?
ANo, he himself did not, not in this case.
QSo that even though this man may have been guilty of the charge, if he belonged to the Luftwaffe hewas released, on the word of the Reichsmarshal?
AHe was not a member of the Luftwaffe, he was a civilian. He had previously been one of our comrades in our Richthofen Squadron. He was not in the Wehrmacht.
QBut your instructions were to release all persons who were Jews or who were from the Luftwaffe? Were those your instructions from Gearing?
AThe Reichsmarshal told me, again and again, that in such a special case I should act humanely, and I did so in every case.
QNow, did you find that Jews were arrested that there were no charges against?
AIn one case, in the case of the two families Ballin--these were two older married couples, more than 60 years old. These two couples were to be arrested, and I was informed of this. I told the Reichsmarshal about it, and he told me that these two couples should be taken to a foreign country.
That was a question of the two couples Ballin. In 1923, when Hermann Goering was seriously wounded in front of the Feldherrnhalle, when he was going back to a house, he was taken in by this family and given medical help. Those two families were to be arrested.
QFor what?
AThey were to be arrested because there was a general order that Jews should be collected in camps.
QAnd you knew of that order?
AI did not know the order; it was only through this example, that went through me, that it became clear to me that this transport of Jews should take place. I never read the order myself, nor even heard of it, because I had nothing to do with that.
QIt came to your attention that Jews were being thrown into concentration camps merely because they were Jews?
A I am not speaking of concentration camps, but the Jews were to be brought to special collection camps.
QNot concentration camps, but special camps? Where were they going from there?
AThat I do not knew.
QAnd whore was this special camp that you speak of?
AI do not know where they were taken to. We simply knew that they were to be taken away.
QBut neither you nor Goering had any suspicion that if they were taken to concentration camps any harm would come to them, did you?
AWhat took place in the concentration camps I knew nothing about.
QNow didn't you hear about the concentration camps, and wasn't the purpose of your saving these people from going to them that the people who went there were mistreated?
AI must reiterate that the people Were freed from their first imprisonment with the Gestapo that were not yet in the concentration camp.
QWhat would the Gestapo take them into custody for if not the concentration camp?
AWhat purpose the Gestapo was pursuing with these arrests I do not know.
QBut you intervened to save them from the Gestapo without even finding out whether the Gestapo had cause for arresting them?
AIf the Gestapo arrested any one, then there must have been something against him.
QBut you made no inquiry into that, did you?
A I have already said it was generally known that these people were taken to collection camps, not concentration camps, but they were to be taken away.
Many people know that; they knew that the people were taken to work camps, and in these work camps they were put to work.
QForced labor?
APlease?
QForced labor?
AIt was just ordinary work. I knew, for instance, that in Lodz the people worked in the textile industry.
QAnd where were they kept while they were doing that work?
AI can't say; I did not know.
QThey were in a camp, weren't they?
AI do not know.
QYou wouldn't know about that?
AI have no idea.
QWhat is the difference between a work camp and a concentration camp? you have drawn that distinction.
AA work camp is a camp in which people were housed without their being in any way ill-treated.
QAnd a concentration camp is where they are ill-treated?
AI can only say that to you, because in the meantime I discovered that through the press and through my imprisonment; at that time I did not know it. I learned that from the newspapers. I was in English imprisonment for quite a while, and that is where I found out about it.
QYou spoke of collection camps, that many people knew they were being taken to collection camps to be taken away. Where were they being taken away?
AI do not know.
QDid you ever inquire?
ANo, I never inquired.
QYou were adjutant to the number two man in Germany, were you not?
AYes.
Q And you never ventured to ask him about the concentration camps?
ANo, I never spoke to him on that theme.
QThe only instructions you had were to get everybody out that you could?
AWhere a request was made or a complaint, I followed those cases down, and in those cases I assisted,
QYou knew that Hermann Goering was a close co-worker with Himmler, didn't you?
AThat he was a fellow worker with Himmler, I knew, because I had something to do with it. Himmler frequently came to conferences with Hermann Goering, but these were, however, private conversations just between Goering and Himmler.
QAnd you knew that he was not only a friend, but that he had aided Kaltenbrunner to his post when Kaltenbrunner came into office, did you not?
ANo, that I didn't know.
QYou didn't know that?
AThat Reichsmarshal Goering recommended Kaltenbrunner for his office? That I did not know. My activity was confined simply to the military center. I was military adjutant for the Reichsmarshal. I had nothing to do with these things.
QDid you have anything to do with the procedure of making full Aryans out of half-Jews?
AOn the question of mixed blood, requests in the field of the Luftwaffe came to me, to wit, officers, according to the regulations, would have to be dismissed from the army if they had mixed blood. In many cases the Reichsmarshal gave instructions that these officers should not be dismissed.
QWhat was done about it?
AIn these cases the chief of the personnel office was instructed not to dismiss these individuals.
QAnd in some cases some kind of an order was made, was it not, that they were full Aryans, notwithstanding Jewish parentage?
A At the moment I can remember no such case.
QYou spoke of the requests for help from Goering coming from broad masses of people, and those requests were submitted to his staff. Is that right?
AYes.
QAnd who was the head of that staff?
AAt the head of the staff stood the chief of the staff, Dr. Witzbach.
QHow many assistants did he have?
AThere were three divisions: The press section, with Dr. Goerner in charge of that; private secretary --there were three such sections.
QAnd which of these sections handled the peoples requests for relief from arrest?
ADr. Witzbach and Dr. Goerner were concerned with that.
QTo whom did they talk about these matters, do you know?
AThese gentlemen, as well as myself, submitted these matters to the Reichsmarshal.
QSo that he was kept fully informed of what you did and of what they did?
APlease repeat the question.
Q The Reichsmarshal was kept fully informed of these applications to you and to the other sections?
AFrom me he was kept in such orientation.
QAnd as I understand you he never failed to give you assistance to any one of the applications that was made to him, so far as you know?
ASo far as any requests addressed to my office or to me personally he never refused assistance and actually always did help.
QAnd never inquired into the guilt or innocence of the person he was helping?
AIn most cases, of course, they were innocent; that was already established.
QNow, you were present on the 20th of July at the bomb explosion, as I understand from your direct testimony?
AOn the 20th of July I was present at that conference and stood very near to the bomb.
QWhere was Hermann Goering that day?
AHermann Goering was in his headquarters on that day about seventy kilometers from the Fuehrer Headquarters.
QOnly seventy kilometers away; is that right? And at that time were you instructed to represent him at that meeting?
AI was not instructed to represent him at this meetings I took part in this conference as in any other one as a listener. I had no such orders to represent Goering in the Fuehrer Headquarters; I simply came to the Fuehrer Headquarters to inform him of what went on there.
QYou represented him to listen but not to talk; is that right?
AI didn't say very much; I was simply a listener and was to inform him as to what took place at the conference, what would interest him in his capacity as Reichsmarshal.
QHowever, in advance of that meeting were you instructed to a ttend the meeting?
AAt this meeting on the 20th of July, on the 19th of July I was on a special commission sent to Muenster Lager to review an Italian division. On the 20th of July, at noon, I came by air to the Fuehrer Headquarters, gave Hitler a military communication, and Hitler said to me, "Come along to the camp." I didn't want to go but I did, and after fifteen minutes the attempted assassination took place.