Air Force. I held the rank of Chief Adjutant. I had the job of keeping the daily journal and organizing the adjutant service.
Daily reported by the offices themselves.
I had no command function.
Officers had fled?
after their flight?
Q Weren't you ever informed that fifty of these officers allegedly were shot while trying to escape?
A I was informed about that much later. I was informed that a number of these officers allegedly had been shot. out? part in these measures? of so-called terror fliers who were shot down? bombings increased steeply. These attacks were directed against civilians who were working in their fields, against secondary railroads and railroad stations without any military significance, against pedestrians and bicycles, all within the homeland. This must have been the reason for Hitler deciding to give orders or to issue orders concerning measures against these fliers. That is as much as I know. Hitler was for the sharpest measures, and lynching should not be prevented. order? expressed their opinion by saying that these attacks, which were solely directed against the civilians, should be condemned. However, no special measures should be taken against these fliers -- lynching and non-protection for parachutists. By the orders of Hitler, the Luftwaffe was forced to take into consideration these questions. It was desired to avoid the consequences of Hitler's opinion. A way will be found, and it was seen in the fact that measures were allegedly taken, but which should not be executed.
to confer with the OKW about the definition of terror fliers. In these conversations and correspondence, all these cases were discussed which, according to international law, could be considered as violations and criminal acts. By these definitions, lynching should be avoided. The correspondence, which took quite some time, also shows the tendency of the various officers to delay the solution of this problem. At the end of June, 1944, the definition of terror flier was stipulated. The stalag was directed to report all cases of violations but not to take any measures. By these measures the directive, in the sense of Hitler, was avoided. by Hitler were not carried out by the air force?
A Yes, that can be said. It can be said that the measures directed by Hitler were not carried out. As well, the commanders of the air force can certify they had not received any orders to shoot enemy fliers or to turn them over to the SD. ceived directives to take hostages or to shoot them? with hostages.
Q Now one more question: Can you give us any information about the treatment of the five enemy fliers who, in March 1945, jumped into the Schorfheide and were captured? the Schorfheide. Part of the crew saved themselves by jumping. Some of those were injured. The injured ones were sent to a rest center hospital. The observer, an American captain, who had been a director in Hollywood in his civilian occupation, was interrogated by the Reichsmarshal about his mission and his jump.
DR. STAHMER: I have no more questions to this witness.
THE RESIDENT: Do any other Defendants' Counsel wish to ask the witness any questions? BY DR. LATERNSER (Counsel for the General Staff and the OKW):
Q I have only a few questions to this witness. Which official position did you have when the war started? the professional soldiers? beginning of the war. On the contrary, we took it with great seriousness. As young soldiers, we saw out mission to train the soldiers, to educate them, and to turn them into preparedness for the protection of our country.
Q Which positions did you have, then, during the war? Were you ever in the staff of an air fleet?
Of a short time as group commander. I was also adjutant of the commander-in-
chief of the air force. of the air force, you could get a lot of information about the Luftwaffe? of air fleets have any influence on political decisions or the manner in which the war was conducted? on any political decisions. Their job was the technical execution of the orders received, and orders about the conduct of the air war in increasing number came from Hitler himself. measures in the conduct of the war? of air fleets. They were professional soldiers who held their positions on the basis of orders.
DR. LATERNSER: I have no more questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Does any other Defendants Counsel wish to ask my questions? Do the Prosecution wish to cross examine?
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I would ask that the witness be Shown document 1156-PS of the United States documents.
(witness handed document) BY MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:
Q Do you recognize that document, witness? I call your attention to the fact that it purports to be a report to Reichsmarshal Goering on the 19 of March 1941 meeting. conferences if they were personal conferences only at the headquarters. I have not seen this document and I do not know anything about the facts at this conference. I take it and which reads:
"The directives worked out by the W.I. for destructive measures to be undertaken by the Luftwaffe in the 'Fall Barbarossa' were agreed to by the Reichsmarshal. One copy was handed to Captain von Brauchitsch to be forwarded to the General Staff of the Luftwaffe." information about the contents of the letter mentioned here.
Q You knew about the "Fall Barbarossa"did you not?
A I was informed about the "Fall Barbarossa" in the beginning of 1941 for the first time. I was not present at the conference. to be undertaken in connection with that by the Lufteaffe, did you not? attacks against the airfields were ordered. St. Petersburg? remember, nothing was said about these targets but only about attacks against airfields, which were the main targets of the Air Force.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: I will ask that the witness be shown Exhibit 735-PS, in evidence as GB Exhibit 151.
(witness handed document) BY MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: of which only three copies were made, is that correct?
A May I read this letter first before I answer the question? and ask you if you recognize who that signer was?
Q Who was Warlimont?
Q And you knew him welland he knew you well, did you not? him for the first time. is that the occasion when you first met Warlimont?
Q That was on the date 6/6 of '44, when this meeting was held? that meeting, by which it appears that Obergruppenfuehrer Kaltenbrunner opened the meeting with a report that a conference on the question of the flyers had been held shortly before with the Reichsmarshal, the Reich Foreign Minister and the Reichsfuehrer SS. That is the opening of it, is it not? of that conference.
Q Who was the Reichsmarshal at that time? started and in the night from the 5th to the 6th I called the Reichsmarshal, informed him about the beginning of the invasion and on the morning he left from Feldenstein to be in the afternoon in Klessheim.
Q And this meeting is said to have been held in Klessheim on the afternoon of 6/6, isn't it?
meeting as such and the content of the meeting.
Q Yes, I understand, you were not present. That was between the Reichsmarshal, who wasGoering, was it not? Goering was Reichsmarshal at that time, was he not?
Q Ribbentrop was Foreign Minister at that time, was he not?
Q And who was the Reichsfuehrer SS? Minister -- just follow the next sentence -- "The Foreign Minister who wished to include every type of terror attack on German civilian population. take place; is that not the sense of the first paragraph? thing about the contents of this meeting, of this conference, as I have said before. Kaltenbrunner called? here. says you were?
A I say this is spite of the signature but maybe I can read the whole document before I give a definite answer.
Q Read the last sentence. Witness, I may be misinterpreting this. It does not say you were present but it does say that you gave them this information. I ask you to look at the last paragraph and say whether that is not true? refer to a conference which, if I remember correctly, took place on the 6th late in the afternoon in General Warlimont's house and which I have mentioned in my statement before. do not show you to have been present. There was such a conference as Warlimont describes but it was not the same conference at which Kaltenbrunner was present, is that correct?
A Yes, that is correct. I only know of this one meeting on the 6th late in the afternoon, between Walimont and myself.
Q And that is the conference to which he refers in the third paragraph? paragraph, which I just read and there is no connection between the two.
Q T he third paragraph had no connection with the first meeting, you say? no knowledge of paragraph one. I mentioned before that I had the mission to confer with the OKW about the definition of acts which were to be considered as violations of international law and crimes. The conference referred to in paragraph three of Warlimont's minutes is a conference between you and him later that afternoon and had nothing to do with the Kaltenbrunner conference which was held earlier in the day. to the bombing of German cities? the beginning of '44 it was very strong.
Q That was becoming very embarrasing to the Reichsmarshal, was it not?
A Of course it was very disagreeable for the Air Force that their defensive forces were too weak to stave off these attacks.
blamed for the air attacks, was he not? assured the German people back in 1939 that they could be protected against air attacks on the German cities. You understood that fact, did you not? in 1939, which led to this statement, had an entirely different background than in 1944; because in 1944 the entire world was against us. people had looked to the Reichsmarshal to protect them, isn't that a fact? all means at their disposal would go against these attacks.
Q Now, what were the relations between Goering and Hitler at this time?
A May I ask to have the question repeated? I did not understand it clearly. change that came over the relationship as this bombing of German cities progressed? less worse than they had been before. Whether that was only based upon the conditions caused by the air warfare is not known to me. were you not the entire period of the war?
A I do not know what you consider close. The relation of a commanderin-chief to his adjutant, that is what it was.
Q Well, you were particularly friendly; he had great confidence in you and you had great regard for him. Isn't that a fact? motives which the Reichsmarshal may have had we did not have. telegram proposing to take over the government of Germany himself and was arrested and condemmed to death?
searched your houses, seized all your papers, and took you prisoner, did it not? The Reichsmarshal was led to his room and from that moment on never remained without personal guard; that we were put in single custody and separated from him and that we executed by the troops of the SS, who were stationed at the Berghof.
Q And this occurred at Berchtesgaden? the SS at the time of the surrender and were supposed to approve it by your own signature. Is that correct? his family and those surrounding, at the time of the capitulation in Berlin, should be shot.
The second thing you mentioned is different. We should have been -we were about to be forced to volunteer for the SS. One has to say that the SS leaders did not want us there at that time and we were not forced to execute that order. At that time, however, we were already separated from the Commander-in-Chief.
Q What was the state of your knowledge about the activities of the SS? What was the SS and what was its relation to the Wehrmacht at this time? What was its relation to the Air Force? Tell us about the SS. stood. Speaking of the SS, SD, Gestapo, Waffen SS, they were entirely different units. The Gestapo, as such, was a means of pressure which prevented a great deal of free development.
Q And the SS likewise, as a matter of fact?
A The Waffen SS was the military organization, the troops. I, personally, did not have any bad experiences with them, no difficulties, no friction with them.
Q But what about the SS proper? Brauchitsch, you know this situation about the SS, I am sure, and you impress me as wanting to tell us candidly whet you know about this situation, and I wish you would tell us a little, what the influence of the SS was on these situations. only able to give you information about the Air Force, but I am not in a position to say anything about general things about which I have no technical knowledge, just a subjective opinion.
Q Well, wasn't the SS the subject of a good deal of discussion among you officers, and wasn't everybody aware that the SS was an organization like the Gestapo that was repressive and cruel? of the air power of the enemy that these worries kept us busy, more than sufficiently. Germany and the Jews of occupied countries? pointed out here and as it went through the press.
Q Well, I don't want to interrogate you from what is in the press, but do you want the Tribunal to understand that you had no knowledge of a campaign against the Jews in Germany? I have now read in the press. I did not know at the time.
Q Your father was Field Marshal, was he not?
Q At what period was he Field Marshal?
Q He has never been deprived of his rank, is that a fact?
Hitler as to military programs? concerning political and military questions. States that he retired from active command in 1941?
Q And what did you understand to be the reason for his retirement? the political considerations did he see eye to eye with Hitler, and could not come to any accord, and since he could not make his own opinions prevail, he desired to manifest his dissent by resigning, and that specifically also referred to religious questions.
Q That is true, is it not?
You were also asked this:
"And from 1941 to the end of the war, do you know what he was doing?"
And you answered:
"Well, he had, through his second wife, a little house in a small town in Silesia, Bockenheim, and he occupied himself with studies of family history and also with forestry, economics, and hunting work, but did not take any share" -
A (Interposing) That was military history only, with economic question
Q Beg pardon. I didn't get that. in military questions.
" -- but did not take share in any sort of bloody political endeavors."
You said that, did you not?
Q This is your answer in full. You interrupted me. This is your answer to the interrogator:
"Well, he had, through his second wife, a little house in a small town in Silesia, Bockenheim, and he occupied himself with studies of family history and also with forestry" -- and, they have down -- "economics, and hunting works, but did not take any share in any sort of bloody political endeavors."
don't you?
A I have never said that he ever took part in bloody things. It must be an error. I have never seen that protocol any more. I have not signed it
Q I have not made myself clear. You said he did not take part in any bloody political endeavors. That is what this says you said. or any political endeavors.
Q You didn't use those terms in the examination?
A No, I cannot remember that I said that. I have not signed that protocol and I didn't see it any more after the interrogation. 1946 to Captain Horace Hahn, Interrogator? because that expression is foreign to me. I do not know in what connection I would have mentioned it.
Q Well, you don't know of any that he did partake in, do you?
A No. My father retired, yes.
Q Absolutely from this whole Nazi outfit. He cut his strings with them and retired to a little village rather than go on with the program he didn't agree with, didn't he? Isn't that a fact?
DR. PECKMANN (Counsel for the SS): I believe that I do not have any more formal right to question this witness after Justice Jackson has interrogated him, but I would be grateful if I would be permitted to since Justice Jackson questioned the witness also about the SS.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness statement about the SS was that he knew nothing about it. I don't know what ground that gives for your cross examination.
DR. PECKMANN: He was asked whether, on Obersalzburg, he was guarded by the SS who also had orders to shoot him and to shoot Goering.
I would like to clarify whether that was SS or SD.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. BY DR. PECKMANN:
Q I ask the witness, therefore: Do you knew whether these people whom you have just mentioned were members of the SS or SD. Do you know the difference, Witness?
A I knew the difference generally. I believe that the troops which had the mission of guarding us were SS, but that the Sicherheitsdienst had the special order.
DR. PECKMANN: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of the other counsel for the Prosecution wish to cross-examine?
Dr. Stahmer, do you wish to re-examine?
DR. STAHMER: I have only two short questions. BY DR. STAHMER: Reichsmarshal and Himmler were? there existed between Himmler and Goering a relation which on the outside looked very careful, but one could not talk of the real relation between the two. last moment, still trusted the Reichsmarshal, and there was special confidence in the Reichsmarshal? Can you tell us about any particular incident say the exact date -- in a public air raid shelter. The Reichsmarshal was without any guards, and he spoke to the people and they greeted him with the old slogan "Hermann, halt die Ohren steif", Hermann, keep your chin up. of the 20-21 April. On the morning of the 21st, towards noon, the Reichsmarshal arrived at a town in Sudetengau, Bohemia, where a short stop-over was made, and where, after a short time, the market place was filled by people.
He was asked for his autograph, and we could not get him out of the crowd with his own car. Here also, he was greeted by the old shout, "Hermann."
DR. STAHMER: I have no more questions.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may retire.
DR. STAHMER: As next witness, I name State Secretary Paul Koerner.
PAUL KOERNER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Is your name Paul Koerner?
Q Will you repeat this oath after me: truth, and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath).
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down if you wish. BY DR. STAHMER:
Q Witness, which official position did you have before the capitulation?
Q In this office were you one of the collaborators of the Reichsmarshal?
Q When did you first meet the Reichsmarshal?
Q When were you picked as collaborator?
Q In what function?
Q when were you taken into the Civil Service?
AApril 1933. Pardon; the previous date was '31.
THE PRESIDENT: The translator said the previous date was 1931; which date was 1931?
DR. STAHMER: In 1931 he first became Goering's private secretary. In 1933 he entered the Civil Service.
BY DR. STAHMER:
Q Which office did you hold? the Gestapo? the seizure of power, was developed from the Political Police Department 1-A. Basically, the Political Police Department remained in existence, only it was newly formed, and got the name of the State Police.
Q What was their mission?
Q Are you informed about the establishment of concentration camps?
Q What purposes did they serve?
Q What do you mean by "house"? these camps.
Q And what should be done with them there? should take place in order to be able to return them to the mission.
Q Do you know anything about the treatment which took place there?
Q Did you ever hear anything about so-called wild concentration camps? established.
Q By whom? fuehrer Heines; one in Stettin. Whether there were any others, I do not know.
Q In Stettin? Who was it in Stettin?
Q And what became of these camps?
A When the Reichsmarshal heard about it, he had them dissolved because they were established without his approval.
Q What was the Reichsmarshal's attitude to complaints?
A Oh, he always went after the complaints; he went to the sources of the complaints.
Q Do you knew of any case where he took special measures?
Q How was it? marshal wanted. He tried to get information about it and then had the man brought before him.
Q Who was Thaelmann? Communist member of the Reichstag.
Q And how did the Reichsmarshal speak to Thaelmann? him anything, why a complaint had been sent.
Q And then?
but it became clearer to him, after the Reichsmarshal spoke very plainly to him, that he could speak freely. Then he told the Reichsmarshal that he had not been treated correctly. The Reichsmarshal promised to do something about it immediately, and gave the respective directives; and he also suggested to Thaelmann that whenever such things occurred again he should report about them immediately. He also gave orders that whenever any complaints should come from Thaelmann, they should be sent directly to him. the competence of the Reichsmarshal?
A Until the spring of 1934; I believe it was March or April.
Q Under whose competence did they come then? Reichsfuehrer Himmler. 30th of July, 1934? where we were present at the wedding of Gauleiter Roehm. During the wedding ceremony Himmler reported to the Fuehrer. Later the Fuehrer confided in the Reichsmarshal and told him about the plans of Roehm.
Q Do you also know what he told him? the knowledge of Goering.
Q Do you know any details?
Q What directives did Goering receive? at once, and the Fuehrer went to Southern Germany to investigate these reports personally.
Q When was that wedding? was to see Hitler?
A No. The Reichsmarshal was in Berlin. We returned, the same evening to Berlin.
Q Yes, and on the day after the Roehm putsch, after the 30th? and Hitler?
A Yes. I remember that the Reichsmarshal drove to the Reich Chancellery to report several things to the Fuehrer, especially that the Reichsmarshal had been informed that on that occasion innocent people also could have been, or were the victims. Therefore, he wanted to ask the Fuehrer to stop the whole action immediately.
Q Was that done?
Q In what form, or in what manner? personally issued directives that no wild actions should take place any more, that the actions were finished, and if any guilty people were found they would be sent to courts, which had to decide whether any action should be taken against the men or not. Reichsmarshal had anything to do with the action of the 8th and 9th of November, 1938, against the Jews?
Q How do you know? and on the same evening we went to Berlin. If the Reichsmarshal had known anything, undoubtedly be would have told me, or these who were around him. He had no idea.
Q When did he find out about it? at Berlin.
Q Through whom?