Then the burning started. These people in Berlevaag, as many people in many places, thought they would be in a danger zone by being in their homes, and therefore they built old shacks and houses of peat outside the place, like these people had done. The burning started by burning down these small houses outside the town, and then the crowd was push forward down the quay, all of them, the old, the sick, and so forth. The cattle was either shot in the open or shot in the stables, or burned in the stables. I have soon that myself. I have seen groups of cattle being burned in the stables. That, I mean, accounts for their dislike for being evacuated. Also he very rough part of the year, and the voyage in small boats along the coast, which wore full of mines and which could be raided at any time.
Q. Have you, General, ever seen personally any villages or settlements being burned down?
A. No, I haven't seen that, but when we got to Kirkenes part of it was still burning. There was another reason for the population to try to get away. There were epidemic diseases spreading, some cases of typhus, but rather large epidemics of diarrhea and dysentery. The important part of it was that there were no doctors. I have been evacuated, and as far as I know there was only one doctor left in the whole district who had made his escape. Now, there were epidemic diseases, cold, hunger and so on, and no doctors, no hospitals.
Q. General, did you ever see personally any villages which were actually destroyed or settlements, as a result of this evacuation?
A. Yes, I have seen most of the places in Finnmark. I got to the western part of Finnmark about the beginning of April myself.
Q. What was the degree of destruction?
A. Well, I think that the destruction was as complete as it could be. As I think I mentioned in my first remarks, practically all of the territory west of the Tana line was completely destroyed. There was nothing left.
Q. And, General, these houses and settlements and villages, did they at any time offer your troops any shelter or were they all destroyed before you got there?
A. They were all destroyed before we got there, except in the Easternmost part of Finnmark. As it was, when we got to these places, they could not offer us any shelter. First of all they were burned, and secondly the concrete fundaments of the buildings were blown up by dynamite, so that building could not even be repaired, and even to this very day there are 7,000 people who have not been able to go back to Finnmark.
Q. On account of the destruction?
A. Yes.
Q. General, did these destructions, as you saw it at that time in command of a military command, offer a deterrent to the Russians to advance, in other words were the destructions a reason that the Russians did not advance?
A. Of course I can't tell you.
Q. Did the Russians ever talk to you about that?
A. No, but I can make my own opinion about it, and that is that it was not possible to advance under those conditions with large forces.
Q. In other words, you say that the destructions that were carried out actually had the effect that they kept the Russian army back from advancing?
A. No, I wouldn't say that. That was, of course, one of the reasons, but in any case, I think, that the Russian Army could not have advanced, because the cold and the climate and the temperature and so on, in Finnmark is not suitable for operations on a large scale in the wintertime. It is completely dark, as I said too, and the decision was not fought in Norway. It was merely a small sideshow which was joint on up there.
Q. But, General, the Germans, as you told us, carried on this destruction for many months to come, and the Russians did not advance, so how did you estimate the situation at that time?
A. I estimated the situation in such a way that the Russians would use their forces at other points, and didn't care about Norway.
Q. But that was information which you had in your position of constant contact with the Russian forces, is that right?
A. That is right.
Q. But you don't know whether or not the Germans were in a position to know that too?
A. Well, I think they knew. There are several reasons why I think so. First of all, the German Intelligence Service was certainly very good. Besides, they had their planes that could easily find out whether their troops were following up or not, and the third point is that after the German Army left there were radio costs which kept them in knowledge of where the advancing troops might have been at any time. We got some oi those costs, and they must have given very good information that no troops did follow.
MR. RAPP: I have no further questions, Your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY DR. FRITSCH:Dr. Fritsch for defendant Rendulic.
Q. First of all, I would like to clarify a few personal doubts; did you say, General, that you were 38 years old?
A. No, I said 53.
Q. I beg your pardon. You are an active officer since the year 1915, an active soldier?
A. Yes.
Q. General, do we agree that on the question, of military necessity we can disagree, that we can be of various opinions on the question of military necessity?
A. Of course we can disagree.
Q. You were with the Russians, General?
A. Yes.
Q. Since when?
A. I was head of a military mission to Russia from about the 1st of October 1944.
Q. Since that time did you have any special contact with the Tana Front of the Russian Army, on the Tana River?
A. I had no personal contact with the Tana Front, but our troops had.
Q. You listed some reasons which, according to your conviction, speak in favor of the fact that the Russians would not press into Norway; would you tell me whether at the Tana Front and until what time there was fighting contact between the Germans and Russian troops?
A. Yes--
THE RESIDENT: Pardon me, General, just a moment. Let's put tipis microphone right out in front. Now, if you will just sit back, General, and take it easy, just as though you were visiting. You don't have to use it as though you were calking on a telephone.
THE WITNESS: It is very difficult to hear.
THE PRESIDENT: You say you are not able to hear?
THE WITNESS: I am hearing now.
A. But I can answer that last question. The question was, when the last contact between the Russian and German troops was on the Tana River, and according to the reports which we got it was on the 5th or 6th of November.
Q. Down to that day there were fights with the Russians?
A. Yes, there had been very little fighting since October 24, and the German troops had very rapidly gone back behind west of the Tana River, and it was just very small rear guards being left on that river at that particular time.
Q. For what reason should the German leadership be sure that the Russians would not follow?
A. As I said to the Prosecurot, the Russians would not follow because they knew very well difficult conditions up in the month if Norway at that part of the year, and also they had sent most of their troops down south to fight in the Baltic.
Q. Do you have any basis for this, that the German command was also informed of this.
A. No, I do not now whether the German command was informed of this.
Q. Ther German army command had to be, or could assume that the Russians would follow.
A. I do not think they could assume that, because their intelligence service might have told them, or would certainll have told them that the greater part of the Karelian Army was being sent South, and what was left would not have been sufficient to cope with the German forces which were then in Finnmark.
Q. But these are just assumptions on your part, General. Is that right? You said that Norwegian troops from England, in the winter of 1944-45 were sent to Finnmark?
A. Yes.
Q. Were these troops supposed to land in Finnmark?
A. They were not put ashore in Finnmark; They were put ashore in Murmansk and from there transported in Finnmark.
Q. And the reason why they were not supposed to land in Finnmark; can you give me that?
A. The reason why they were not put ashore in Finnmark, well that would probably be as I said to the prosecutor,-that we must first cooperate with our Allies, and therefore go to a Russian port and see what their plans were.
Q. Witness, didn't I understand you to have said that they did not land in Finnmark because they knew about the destruction?
A. Well, that was a small reason, I agree to that, but of course a small force of 300 men can be landed almost anywhere from beats.
Q. Witness, you spoke of the Reich Highway No. 50 and you described this high was as the only import and road from east to west in Finnmark; is that correct?
A. That is correct, - the most important road, yes.
Q. Was this highway in the year 1939, before the landing of the German troops, - was this highway fully fit to be traveled on?
A. No, it was not completely finished until after the German forces came in Finnmark. There were q few stretches which were not finished before the war.
Q. And this highway was finished by the Germans; is that right?
A,. No, that is not right, but small stretches of the highway were finished by Norweigians working under German orders.
Q. Then you spoke of the mining of this highway. Do you consider this mining as militarily necessary?
A. Yes I do.
Q. If the Russians had had the intention to follow the Germans, we cannot affirm or deny this intention post facte; wasn't it then a military necessity to destroy the housing facilities for the Russians as they would press on?
A. No, that is a great mistake. These houses were very few, and I cannot imagine how any force which could cape with the strength of the German forces could have any use of those few houses along that highway. As I have told before, the greatest part of the population in Finnmark were living on the coast, and the advance did not take place and could not take place along the coast.
Q. General, we shall came back to this question later. My question is this. I want to determine by your experiences, whether it was not especially difficult for a military opponent, if he would come in a country like Finnmark, and find no shilter.
A. Would you repeat that question; in succession please? Will you say it in English once again?
Q. Don't you think that it would be very difficult for a military opponent invading Finnmark to find no shilter there?
A. Yes, that would be difficult.
Q. General, you spoke of the fact that the inhabitants of Finnmark lived mostly an the coast. Aren't there some villages on the highway too?
A. Yes, there are some small villages on Highway 52.
Q. General, during the direct examination you spoke of destruction of towns.
PRESIDENT WENNERSTRUM: Just a minute, General. The young man wants to give you a substitute receiving set.
New General, may I suggest that you just sit back as though you were visiting in someone's home, and answer your question just as though we were carrying on a conversation.
You may proceed.
Q. General, would like to come back to the question of military necessity. If the German Command had recognized the necessity for evacuating this place, wouldn't it have done some good to the Norweigian inhabitants that it would take them out of a territory which was destroyed, for military reasons?
A. I can see no necessity of destroying the country. As I have said, I do not think that any large forces could advance in this territory and keep themselves up.
Q. Wasn't the impossibility for the opponent to enter this region only created by the fact that the housing facilities were destroyed?
A. No. The opponent would have the greatest difficulty of getting into this country even when the houses were there, and even when the roads were there. This highway 50, as I said, would not be open in the winter.
Q. Highway 50 was unsed in the winter, wasn't it General,?
A. Yes, in part of the winter, but in not winter, so far as I knew the road was kept open even with a great number of prisoners of war working on it.
Q. Do you know, General, that the road was filled with tunnels which would keep it from being snowdrifted; partly by woo*en tunnels?
A. Yes, I knew that some part of it was equipped with those tunnels, but even do they were not possible to keep open.
Q. At what time of the winter, 1944-45, did you move on this highway with your troops?
A. The troops moved on this highwas from about the end of November, and until say, March. But they did not exactly moves on the highway because they were on *kis and they went outside of the highwas.
Q. Couldn't larger units of troops have moved on this road, if the road had been open?
A. They could have moved to a certain extent, but had been stopped at very far eastern place just went of the Tana Fjord.
Q. General, you spole about the destruction of towns and villages. Was Kirkenes, for example, destroyed, as a result of the evacuation?
A. Not all Kirkenes, but a great part of Kirkenes was destroyed as the German troops evacuated.
Q. Do you know that Kirkenes wes repeatedly bombed by Russian airplanes?
A. I knew that Kirkenes was bombed on several occasions by the Russian airplanes.
Q. Do you know that these bombing and the direct fight around the city destroyed the city about 90 per cent?
A. I think that is completely wrong, because as far as I heard, there was no fighting in Kirkenes whatever.
Q General, didn't you say yourself before, that the last fight took place in the beginning of November around the region of Kirkenes?
A No, I never said that.
Q Witness; in answering a question during direct examination, -you spoke of the cruel evacuation, and you specified in your statement, -you mentioned a case, if I remember correctly, it was a matter of the village of Berlevaag; is that correct?
A That's right.
Q Did you investigate this case yourself?
A I did investigate it by witnesses, but I was never there myself, of course, and this person who gave me the report has signed his report.
Q You also said that cattle was burned in stables. Did you yourself see any of these things?
A I have never been in the places which were evacuated by the Germans, but I have seen cattle burned in the stables.
Q And this happened, according to your convictions, not as a result of the usual military actions?
A Yes. This was at a place where there was no action at all. It was at a place called Lakselv.
Q General, you also said that churches and historical buildings were burned down. Could you give me any towns where this happened?
A Yes, I can mention a place called Altagaan, which is the old residence of the County, -- 'well the" ", as we say in Norwegian, built in 1740, and. which was . It was a building which could not be -- I cannot find the word in English, but it is a building which has a historical value and which was not to be changed in any way or used for any other purpose than a certain one.
There is also another building to the south, at the place called Hamnes, which I could also mention, and at the latter place the Germans had themselves known that this was an historic building.
Q Was this building situated inside a village?
A It was not situated in, -- well not particularly in a village. It was now the building where the commanding officer of the Western Finmark was living; that means on a training ground, and it was far from other buildings.
Q Could it have served to house troops?
A Yes, it could house troops.
Q General, -- of what building material do the houses in Finmark usually consist?
A They mostly consist of wood.
Q If some of these houses serving as shelter would be burned, then there would hardly remain a building which one would want to save; that is a church or similar building; then there would hardly remain any building unharmed? Is that correct?
A Well if the village was put on fire, and it was a suitable wind, I think the whole village would bum down.
Q General, then you said that you had received various reports according to which Norwegians had escaped evacuation. Did you also get reports from those who had been evacuated?
A Yes, and that is a point.
As we had re-occupied part of Finmark, a lot of people from the occupied area came to Finmark and they got there because they wanted to assist the population in Finmark with food, clothing and boats, and all of these people who came in from outside of the re-occupied territory, had to report to my staff, so I knew everything they told me about the evacuation.
Q You then said that the people to be evacuated had to pass through mined waters on boats. Is that correct?
A Yes, that is one way of evacuating people.
Q Do you know, General, that these boats were almost exclusively manned by German soldiers?
A I don't know that.
DR. FRITSCH: I have no further questions, your Honor.
PRESIDENT WENNERSTRUM: Are there any further questions by other counsel? .....No response......
Is there any redirect?
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY.
..............MR. RAPP: A very short one, your Honor. General, the element of military necessity was raised during the cross-examination, and I would like to ask you if as you stated, it was remote or nonexistent. What other reasons were there for destroying this territory presuming that it was not military necessity?
A I did not quite catch that.
Q I said, assuming that the destruction was not military necessity, what other reasons are given for the destruction?
A Well, we by-and-by saw acts of Germans towards the population which seemed to us to indicate a certain mood of revenge, and one of these raiding parties coming back actually killed six fishermen, and amongst them two boys, and then after that, the German commander went to a small hut which had been erected after the destruction, where a woman lived with her small children, and he asked this woman her name, and then ho told her he had killed her husband and her son, and then ho raped her in the presence of her children.
After that exploit, a poster was put on the bodies, and I may be allowed to read that because it is rather significant, I think, I have translated it into English, but it was written in Norwegian, and the contents were this:
"Norwegian Men and Women!
"Point I: We fight and work for you and for a future European state.
"Point II : We do not give away chocolate and tobacco as a bait, but we have shown a friendly attitude toward you during five years of our stay here.
"Point III: We protect your homes against Bolshevik blood terror.
"Point IV: We protect your homes from capitalistic plundering.
"Point V: We grant you fishing grounds for your own personal use.
"Point 6: We get you work and bread.
"The one who opposes us, the one who supports the anti-European powers with English, America, and Soviet Russia as leaders, the one who openly or secretly places himself against us in this for Europe so difficult time, the one who fleeing in fishing boats or escaping across the border opposes our arms, the one who openly or secretly assists the enemy on this or on the other side of the front, he is a traitor to Europe and to his Norwegian homeland, and he will be found and destroyed regardless of where he is hiding."
That is one example, sir. I have another one, which also speaks for itself, I think, and that is the following: After the 8th of May, after the capitulation, the Norwegian authorities sent out expeditions to the devastated areas to find out the conditions and make a report. There were still then German troops in those territories which were otherwise evacuated. At one place a poster was found, which I have brought with me, and which has the following in printing: "As long as there is an enemy within our borders, may hate be my duty and revenge my virtue." And this is distributed by the 6th German Mountain Division, and it has a stamp date on it, 15 February, which probably is the date when the receiving unit received it from this division. When, therefore, the prosecutor asked me this question, we all had a feeling that there was -- they tried to revenge themselves, which was the origin of these acts in Finnmark.
Q. General, in your talks with the Norwegian population or with men under your command, was it ever mentioned to you directly or by insinuation that the population was very glad that the Germans are helping the Norwegians to escape Bolshevism?
A. No, never. That was never said to me. On the contrary, the population in Finnmark was very much upset and used the strongest words of the language to express their feelings towards the German troops. I will add, though, that of course there are some people in Norway belonging to the Nazi Party that have a different opinion.
MR. RAPP: That's all the questions I have, Your Honor.
DR. FRITSCH: Your Honor, I have just two more questions, resulting from the re-direct examination.
RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY DR. FRITSCH:
Q. General, you spoke of the shooting of a fisherman and two boys. How do you know that?
A. I had a military patrol out which saw the thing. Besides, I had a report from an intelligence officer, a very complete report taken on the spot.
Q. When was this incident supposed to have taken place?
A. That incident took place on the 6th of May 1945.
Q. On the 6th of May 1945? Where?
A. Where? That was at a place called Hopeidet.
Q. And where is this place?
A. This place is between the town of Tana fjord and Lakse fjord. It's rather far east.
Q. On the 6th of May 1945 were there still German troops there at that time?
A. Yes. They came, as I have told before -- they came continually back with raiding parties along the coast, and also they came inland after having landed.
Q. But at that time you, General, had already your brigade with you and you already had pushed on towards the west.
A. That's right.
Q. How did these German troops come to move in back of you?
A. It's very easy to explain. As I told before, Finnmark is a country of 48,000 square kilometers, and I don't think that 3,000 men would be able to cover that.
Q. Witness, one final question. From where does this piece of paper come which you have read before? Did you yourself receive it or did you take it from a house, or what?
A. This paper I have here in court was taken by one of those Norwegian expeditions being sent out immediately after the capitulation, and found on one of the houses at a place called Birtavarie, and it was taken with the expedition to the 6th Division Command, of which I am the commander.
Q. You yourself never found such a paper, did you?
A. No, everywhere I came everything was burned.
DR. FRITSCH: Thank you very much.
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps -- anything further for this witness?
MR. RAPP: We have no further questions, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: May the witness be discharged then? Any objection on the part of any defense counsel to the discharge of this witness? The counsel for Rendulic? There being indication that there's no further desire on the behalf of the defense counsel for the retention of this witness, you may be excused, General.
Did you have any other matters this afternoon, Mr. Rapp?
MR. RAPP: I have nothing further this afternoon, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: You had some papers-
MR. RAPP: We could have that postponed until tomorrow if Your Honors desire.
THE PRESIDENT: We have about five minutes before adjournment. We'll adjourn at this time until tomorrow morning.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will be in recess until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
(The Court adjourned at 1625 hours.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Welhelm List et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany on 26 August 1947, 0930, Justice Justice Edward F. Carter presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal V.
Military Tribunal V is now in session. God save the United States of America, and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the Court.
THE PRESIDENT: Marshal, you will ascertain as to whether or not all defendants are present in the Courtroom.
THE MARSHAL: May it please your Honors, all defendants are present in the Court.
THE PRESIDENT: Judge Edward F, Carter will preside at this day's session.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: You may proceed.
MR. DENNEY: May it please your Honors, there are a, few matters we would like to clear up about exhibits, identifying documents, etc. that we have let go a little too long, so perhaps this would be a good time to do it and in addition counsel for the defendant Rendulic has had something come up in the case which is pending before Military Tribunal II and will be over there for 30 minutes or so and then will return.
I think that the matters that are here will take up the Court's time until he gets back if that is agreeable with the Tribunal. This which has just been handed to your Honors, and defense counsel, Secretary General, the interpreters and the reporters is to be marked 480-A. It is to be inserted at the end of Document Book XX and given pages numbered 146 and 147. I am sorry, your Honor, I don't have the German page number but Dr. Laternser advises me that it will be satisfactory if we indicate that it should be inserted at the end of German Document Book XX.
This document which has just been given to your Honors and defense counsel, the Secretary General, the interpreters and the translators should be marked 498-A. It should be given pages numbered 140 and 141, and is to be inserted at the close of Document Book XXI. I do not have the German pages but it should be inserted at the close of German Document Book XXI.
Both 480-A and 498-A are offered for identification only, as has been the practice with reference to the prior similar exhibits, one of which has been offered for each book.
May it please your Honors, the Question of the signatures of the defendants which appear on the various curriculum vita affidavits which have been submitted to the Tribunal has been discussed with all of their defense counsel and they are agreeable to a concession that the various documents--that is, I shall list them momentarily--have been signed by their clients.
Counsel for the defendant List with reference to Exhibit 2 which is in Book I, the signature appearing at page 3; counsel for the defendant Foertsch with reference to Exhibit 11 which is in Book I, the signature appearing at page 42; counsel for the defendant Kuntze, Exhibit 132 which is in Book VI, the signature appearing at page 4; counsel for the defendant Geitner, Exhibit 216 which is in Book IX, the signature appearing at page 3; counsel for the defendant Weichs, Exhibit 311 which is in Book XIII, the signature appearing at page 5; counsel for the defendant Rendulic, Exhibit 313 which is in Book XIII, the signature appearing at page 13; counsel for the defendant Dehner, Exhibit 315 which is in Book XIII, the signature appearing at page 21; counsel for the defendant Leyser, Exhibit 324 which is in Book XIV, the signature appearing at page 56; counsel for the defendant Speidel, Exhibit 409 which is in Book SVII, the signature appearing at page 3; counsel for the defendant Felmy, Exhibit 442, which is in Book XIX, the signature appearing at page 3; counsel for the defendant Lanz, Exhibit 443, which is in Book XIX, the signature appearing at page 8; and may it please Your Honors, the only concession that is made is that those are the signatures of the individuals in question.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: I assume that defense counsel have heard the recitation of the stipulation made between prosecution and defense counsel. Are there any objections to it as it has been stated in the record? If not, the Court will accept it as a stipulation between prosecution and counsel for the defense.
DR. LATERNSER: Your Honors, I have given my consent as regards my clients that these are their signatures. The reasons were the following: in order to obviate any necessity for getting witnesses from abroad. But I want to expressly move, first of all, that Exhibit NOKW-860, Exhibit 2 is cancelled. This Exhibit is an af fidavit of tho defendant Field Marshal List.
My reasons for asking for cancellation are as follows, quite briefly.
The prosecution cannot ask for a defendant to appear as a witness. If it submits an affidavit of a defendant, it really calls him as a witness because it uses his statement as evidence. Legally, the prosecution is not in a position to do this. For that reason, I object to the use of this affidavit Exhibit No. 2 on the part of the prosecution and move for the reason I have given now that this affidavit, be cancelled.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: I am inclined to think that counsel is in error as to the rule that he cites. If a defendant elects to sign a statement, I think his statement is admissible and tho rule does not apply that ho is called to testify against himself. If there are any admissions against interests, they are proper to be offered against him. I think, therefore, the motion will have to be overruled.
MR. DENNEY: If Your Honors please, we would like to withdraw the certificate which is 525-A for identification, which was offered yesterday and the certificate will be resubmitted with the Exhibit Norway-9.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: You may of course withdraw any Exhibit for identification if you care to.
MR. DENNEY: Thank you, Your Honor, and then we would request that this certificate which has nothing to do with the Norway case be marked 525, the one which has just been handed to your Honors. All of defense counsel are familiar with this, and I think that all we will have to do is just road the first two pages and we can omit the executive orders of the President of 2 May 1945, 16 January 1946, the memorandum of 29 March 1946, of Mr. Justice Jackson--excuse me, Robert H. Jackson, Chief of Counsel, General Order No. 301 of 24 October 1946 signed by Major General Huebner, Chief of Staff, and the copy of the appointment of General Taylor dated 24 October 1946 under tho authority of General McNarney, tho then Commanding General in tho American Zone in Europe.