MR. FENSTERMACHER: The witness testified, Your Honor, that he is detained here -
JUDGE BURKE: He has made reference to his preliminary examination. What is he talking about?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: He was brought here as a witness, if Your Honor please, by the Prosecution in this case to see what light he could throw on the problems for which these defendants were later indicted.
JUDGE BURKE: And he has been here ten months awaiting the pleasure of some one?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: No. If Your Honor please, he was brought here and I believe interrogated, perhaps for a week or two, by the Prosecution?
JUDGE BURKE: Did it take that long to secure what information he appears to have now?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Perhaps, if Your Honor please, Mr. Rapp could answer some of these questions better than I. He did some of the interrogating.
MR. RAPP: If your Honors please, I do not pretend to go beyond that what Mr. Fenstermacher already said, but I could possibly straighten out some of the points.
A man of this witness's background, as a representative of the foreign office, was put on the target list of automatic arrest categories under the Four Power Control Directorate in Ordinance #1.
THE PRESIDENT: Now, let me interrupt. By whom?
MR. RAPP: By President Roosevelt, Marshal Stalin, Prime Minister Churchill and, I presume, a representative of the French Government.
THE PRESIDENT: Evidently, it's very evident that they had nothing to do with this man's detention.
Now, who then made the order?
MR. RAPP: The aforementioned gentlemen, Your Honor, drew up a law which has been published and is law in all four zones of Germany and this law is to be carried out or complied with by the respective Military Governors. At that time, General Eisenhower and now, General Clay.
THE PRESIDENT: What law do you mean by that? London Charter?
MR. RAPP: The London Charter as well as the Potsdam Declaration. The Potsdam Declaration, in this particular case, would be more important.
JUDGE BURKE: I may interrupt you to say, Mr. Rapp, that I have at least a limited knowledge of the laws you referred to. But that's not the question before us here. It's a more practical question. My. Roosevelt died in 1945. Mr.Churchill is no longer Prime Minister. The question were interested in is who gave the order for his arrest in April of 1947? Strangely enough, coinciding within a couple of months with the date of his affidavits on behalf of some of those defendants.
MR. RAPP: The Office, Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, in the name of the Military Governor of the American Zone. At the time, the witness was released in 1946 there was no further evidence warranting further detention of this witness. In screening further documents we came across a rather large amount of what we believed to be incriminating evidence, and...
TEE PRESIDENT: When was that discovered?
MR. RAPP: In April, 1947.
THE PRESIDENT: Has he since been charged with any crime?
MR. RAPP: He has not been charged with any crime, but he was here to determine whether or not, in the pre-trial interrogations, he could be indicted under the present case, the Ministries Case # 11.
THE PRESIDENT: And when was that indictment returned?
MR. RAPP: That indictment was returned, I believe, Your Honors, less than one month ago. Possibly, three weeks ago.
THE PRESIDENT: When was it determined as to who should be indicted in that trial?
MR. RAPP: Your Honor, approximately the last defendant was decided one week prior to this indictment. There were two additional indictments filed, as annexes to this particular indictment, two days after the indictment had been lodged with the Secretary General's office.
Now, this witness at the present time is being held here solely and exclusively for the convenience of Dr. MuellerTorgow, who wanted to ask him to appear as his witness for the defendant Felmy. If the witness Altenburg would not be in the Jail in Nuernberg, he would .......
DR. MUELLER-Torgow: If it please the Tribunal, that is something entirely new to me. I have only asked for an affidavit from Dr. Altenburg. I asked him to execute that some time ago and that's all. Dr. Altenburg, I would like to mention in this connection, had asked me to be his defense counsel in case he was indicted in the Ministries Trial. A few days ago, I went to see Dr. Kempner and asked him whether now, since Dr. Altenburg was not indicted, he could be dismissed from Jail and discharged and I was told that this was not possible, but I could not find out why it was not possible. In any case, I want to make quite clear, that Dr. Altenburg is not being detained here because or because I want that.
On the contrary.
MR. RAPP: Your Honor, I don't know what Dr. Kempner told Mueller-Torgow, but the mere fact that this witness has appeared as a witness for the defense and not as a witness for the Prosecution, I think is the best evidence to the fact that he would not have been here in the Nuernberg Jail and that we could possibly have released him.
JUDGE BURKE: In other words, his availability as a witness on one side or the other - we won't attempt to determine that - also made him available as a candidate for a place down in the Jail?
MR. RAPP: Your Honor, I don't quite follow Your Honor's comment, but that is the only place we are able to keep these ....
JUDGE BURKE: Where was he between 1942 - between the end of his service and 1947?
MR. RAPP: He has been, if I am correct, in Nuernberg, in the German civilian internment enclosure in Ludwigsburg, in various other enclosures. I have forgotten their names. Probably the witness would be able to answer this question.
JUDGE BURKE: We can eliminate all that. Was he within the American Zone of Occupation?
MR. RAPP: That's correct.
JUDGE BURKE: Would it have been too difficult a task to summon him from there the same as other witnesses have been called?
MR. RAPP: If he had been at liberty, it would have been no difficulty at all.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: If I may interrupt here, he was in Munich.
THE PRESIDENT: As far as I am concerned, I have gained sufficient knowledge which at least hasn't made a favorable impression on me.
MR. RAPP: Does your Honor wish any additional comment or won't that be necessary at this time?
THE PRESIDENT: You mean from me or from you?
MR. RAPP: From me.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we could go on indeterminately, I suppose. I don't wish to restrict you. My sense of legal procedure and the rights of individuals - and I don't know who's to blame - have been somewhat disturbed. It just doesn't appeal to me as being proper judicial procedure. Now, perhaps there's some occasion for it and some justification, but, as a member of the Judiciary, the thing doesn't have that sense of propriety that I like to see in a judicial proceedings. Now, who's to blame I don't know.
MR. RAPP: Is Your Honor referring now to the judiciary procedure we are used to in the United States or in the Occupation Zone of Germany?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I know nothing about the judicial proceedings here in the Occupation Zone.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: If Your Honor please, Mr. Rapp has stated just before that Dr. Altenburg was detained here because he was needed as a witness in the Felmy evidence. Since that is not the case, I move that Dr. Altenburg be discharged from the Jail immediately. At least, that the necessary steps be taken in this direction.
MR. RAPP: Your Honor, as an afterthought, this witness has also been listed by the Greek Government with the United Nations War Crimes Commission as a war criminal and the Greek Government, as we have been informed less than ten days ago, after we told them that we would not try him, is now asking for his extradition to Greece.
Merely on that basis, as far as the occupation authorities are concerned - and I am not speaking for them - I don't believe they would let the man go at this time.
JUDGE CARTER: Of course, this Tribunal has no authority to release some one from the Jail who is not under indictment before this Tribunal. I might say, Dr. Mueller-Torgow, we accept your statement that you made in the record that he is not being held on any demand of yours.
As to the proceedings to follow we will simply have nothing to do with it.
In regard to the application of the prosecution to call this witness as their own. We see no need for doing that now. He may be called by them on rebuttal when the rest of the rebuttal evidence comes in. So the application is overruled at this time for the reason that it is premature.
I think probably this is a good time to cease for the day. We will recess until 9:30 tomorrow.
(A recess was taken until 0930 hours, 9 December 1947).
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Wilhelm List, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 9 December 1947, 0930, Justice Wennerstrum presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal V. Military Tribunal V is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, will you ascertain if all the defendants are present in the courtroom?
THE MARSHAL: May it please your Honor, all the defendants are present in the courtroom with the exception of defendant von Weichs who is in the hospital.
THE PRESIDENT: You may continue, Mr, Fenstermacher with any further questions in the cross examination.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Thank you, your Honor.
GUENTHER ALTENBURG - Resumed CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued) BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q Dr. Altenburg, you spike yesterday about an order which you received from Ribbentrop telling you not to interfere with reprisal measures taken by the military authorities in Greece. Did that have any influence on your desire to be recalled from your duty in Greece?
A In January 1943 in view of the fact that after the occupation of North Africa by the Americans, or rather through the American landing in North Africa, the situation would be expected to become more acute I applied to be transferred and this application went to Berlin.
Q When you said the situation would become more acute, what do you mean?
A It was to be expected that through the landing in north Africa by the Americans, or rather through the American landing in North Africa, the situation would be expected to become more acute I applied to be transferred and this application went to Berlin.
Q When you said the situation would become more acute, what do you mean?
A It was to be expected that through the landing in north Africa more unrest would flare up in Greece and that this unrest would extend to the population and that the partisan warfare would become even more severe, et cetra, and that was the reason why I thought it would be best to get out of the whole thing if I was in no position to have my say in a future situation.
Q Did you anticipate that reprisal measures would be taken?
A It was to be assumed that if the military necessities should warrant it such things would be done.
Q You wanted to be out of Greece when reprisal measures were taken?
A I don't want to put it that way. The situation for me was a difficult one as I emphasized yesterday and legally I had no basis on which I could maintain my opinion. The difficulty was that in all these questions I had to rely on the friendliness and the willingness to cooperate of the military commander. I had no right or authority but it was just nice of them to listen to me. Really, they would have been entitled to throw me out if they wanted to.
Q You said you tried to interfere with the various military commanders in Greece to prevent the execution of hostages in the taking of reprisal measures. What motivated you to try to interfere in that sphere?
AAs a rule, it was because of the intervention of the relatives of those concerned or by the Greek authorities. These were the ones who informed me and that was the basis of the steps I took.
Q You testified yesterday about certain hostage executions which you were able to prevent. Do you know anything about the execution of 8 hostages in June 1942?
A To the best of my knowledge, that incident was not known to me. I do recall one case in June which I discussed yesterday. That was my intervention with General Andrae and in this case, to the best of my knowledge, nobody was shot. Whether at some other case in June anyone was shot I cannot tell you.
Q Would you look at this document, Dr. Altenburg, and tell me whether or not this refreshes your recollection with respect to the shooting of 8 hostages in June 1942.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: This is in Felmy Document Book V on page 12, your Honors.
Q This is a report of the Commander Southern Greece for 5 June 1942. Will you look at the second paragraph and tell us --"Special Events Outside of the Fighting Activity of the Force"--it speaks there about the execution of 12 hostages on 3 June 1942 in reprisal for murders committed in the Messara region; and then in the second paragraph it speaks about the execution by a German firing squad of 8 hostages and by an Italian firing squad of 2 hostages in reprisal for a plot against the railroad track Liossia-Athens.
Does that refresh your recollection at all, Dr. Altenburg?
A I would like to say the following in this connection. As I said yesterday at the beginning of June I was on leave in Sofia. In the one case where the charge 'd' Affairs informed me, I flew back and I prevented the shooting by representations to General Andrae. Incidentally I was not alone there; my Italian colleague was there, so was the Greek Prime Minister too, and the Greek Archbishop was there, and we together approved that the decision was referred. I know nothing about other cases.
Q Are either of the two cases mentioned here in this document, the hostage execution of the 3rd of June 1942 and the hostage execution apparently on the 5th of June 1942, either of the incidents to which you have made reference regarding interference with General Andrae?
A No, it was only after the 5th that I was informed.
Q Do you know who was the commander Southern Greece at this time, in June 1942?
A That was General Felmy who was on leave at that time, and during that time the command was in the hands of General Andrae.
Q Where were General Felmy's headquarters during the period from May to September 1943, if you know, Dr. Altenburg?
A On the Peloponnes.
Q And you were in Athens, were you not?
A Yes. May I add something to this? As I said in the pretrial examination, from May 1943 until I was transferred, I was absent from Athens on frequent occasions. That was connected with various missions which I had connected with the death of the Bulgarian king in Sofia and with duties I had to fulfill in Berlin.
Q If you were away a good deal of the time during that time and General Felmy's headquarters were on the Peloponnes, I don't suppose you spoke very often with him during that period.
A I visited him once over a week-end there.
Q Is that the only time you saw him during the period from May to September 1943?
A I believe that when he took over office he came to see me in Athens. Then I saw him once there over a week-end and then on another occasion I invited him before I left and the day before I left I made my farewell visit. At that time he had already returned to Athens. That was on the 2nd of November 1943 and at that time General Felmy was in Athens.
Q Since you left in November 1943, I don't suppose you have any knowledge about events in Greece after that date.
A Only what people told me when they saw me passing through.
Q You spoke yesterday, Dr. Altenburg, about certain relations you had with Field Marshal List and General Kuntze during the period 1941 and 1942. I don't suppose you know anything about events which occurred in Jugoslavia during that period.
A I can't tell you that, I am afraid. The representative of the Foreign Office who was in Belgrade would be in a position to give you information.
Q Now, the statement which you wrote out in your own hand to which reference was made yesterday --- did you write that statement out voluntarily?
A Well, like all statements which are being made here, if you see what I mean.
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
Q Were you threatened with any punishment? Were you threatened with any punishment if you failed to write out that statement?
A Not in that way but the conversation was not on a very friendly basis.
Q Did you consider yourself having been under duress when you made that statement and do you consider the statements made there untrue because of that duress?
A Even in this difficult situation I try very hard to stick to the absolute truth because of my own conscience.
Q Are the statements you made in that document true to the best of your knowledge?
A Yes, which of course, does not exclude that I made an error somewhere but I did it to the best of my knowledge and belief in the same way as I am giving testimony here to the best of my knowledge and belief.
Q Would you prefer to have that statement in your own hands rather than in the hands of the prosecution, Dr. Altenburg?
A I don't mind -- either way. It doesn't make any difference to me.
Q Were you ever a member of the Party?
A Yes.
Q Since what date?
A I made an application in December 1935 and received the Party book toward the end of 1937 or the beginning of 1938.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I have no further questions, Your Honors.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW (Counsel for Defendant Felmy):
Q Dr. Altenburg, I would like one thing made quite clear to you, something which was discussed yesterday. When General Felmy became commander for Southern Greece who was it who had the final word in Athens? Who was the occupation power in Athens?
A It was the Italian zone of occupation under General DeLoso;
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
General DeLoso was the Italian Commander in Chief. As I said yesterday in a different context, as the occupation zone of the commander Southern Greece, we only had three or four villages in the vicinity of Athens; a part of the Piraeus for the fleet and then Cape Sunion where the Arabian Legion was stationed which was under General Felmy.
Q A second question: did you at any time discuss with General Felmy reprisal measures or did you intervene with him in this direction?
A No, because this did not become acute where he was concerned.
Q And one last question, Dr. Altenburg, which refers to what you said just before on cross examination: you expressed that you left Greece gladly because it was no longer a field of work for diplomats, if I understood you correctly. The situation had slowly developed in such a way in the interior of Greece on the basis of the general situation that the military authorities were the ones who had the final say.
A I believe that is what the prosecutor understood me to say.
Q I see. I would like to ask you something in connection with this answer of yours. I would like to know whether you thought it was right that military agencies who were committed down there were the ones who made the final decisions and were dominating in view of the situation as it had developed down there, particularly on the basis of the band situation.
A The band situation had not become so very acute in January but it was very obvious that there was a nervous tension in the country through the landing in Africa. In view of the restricted possibilities which I had as political representative down there which became more complicated through the fact that we, by which I mean the Reich Government, had left it to the Italian political influence, therefore, we had to take our own views from the Italians to a large extent. That connected the general tension and my own views seemed to make it better for me to disappear from that sphere if even for the reason, as I expressed in the telegram, either I had the responsibility or I didn't have one and the situation had to be a clear one; otherwise, it happens Court No. V, Case No. VII.
as it happened to me in Nurnberg that I am supposed to be held responsible for things for which I cannot possibly be held responsible.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Thank you. I have no further questions.
BY DR. LATERNSER (Counsel for defendants List and von Weichs):
Q Dr. Altenburg, Mr. Fenstermacher just now mentioned an examination which had been carried out by the prosecution in connection with your person. When was it?
A It was in April.
Q I see and when was your last examination by the prosecution?
A You mean the prosecution of this court?
Q Yes.
A That was, I believe, ten days or two weeks ago, I was asked by Mr. Rapp who had signed the armistice with the Greeks in Salonika and I gave him information to the effect that was Colonel General Jodl. Since at that time I was not yet down there in Greece, I gave him names of two gentlemen who I hope will be able to give him information about the contents of the capitulation conversation.
Q When you were interrogated was it pointed out to you that you could be allowed to have counsel?
A No, to the best of my knowledge, arrestees, unless they are indicted in part of a trial, are not allowed to have that.
Q You mean they are not allowed to have any here in Nurnberg?
A Yes.
Q Were you at any time threatened during those interrogations that you might be a possible defendant?
A Yes, Mr. Rapp once told me that I might become a defendant in one of these trials but I answered it would be difficult to find something to charge me with.
Q Was that during one of the interrogations for this trial?
A That was in the afternoon of the 26th of June.
Q Was it connected with the interrogations of this trial?
A Yes, certainly; Mr. Rapp only interrogates for this trial.
Court No. V, Case No.VII.
DR. LATERNSER: Thank you. I have no further questions.
BY DR. MENZEL (Counsel fer defendant Kuntze):
Q Dr. Altenburg, I have three questions which, of course, refer to the time during which you had contact with General Kuntze; that is, the period from the end of 1941 to the middle of 1942. On cross examination you were asked about reprisal measures in Greece. In this connection is it known to you that there existed a big difference between Greece and Serbia; I mean that in Serbia at that time there were several sabotage acts and, of course, in retaliation reprisal measures, whereas in Greece there were only a few sabotage acts.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honors please, I object to leading the witness. He is obviously not hostile to the defense. I don't believe he is competent at all to make comparisons between Greece and Jugoslavia, unless he is first shown, as was shown in cross examination, he is shown not to know what was going on in Jugoslavia at that time.
THE PRESIDENT: I think the witness should be qualified as to his knowledge of matters in which the counsel is endeavoring to interrogate him. The objection will be sustained.
Q I shall not ask this question but I would like to ask you another question. You said just before that in Athens the Italian occupation force was the one that was in charge.
A Yes.
Q Who then was responsible for the food situation in Athens?
A In principle, the Italians.
Q "In principle," you say, "the Italians."
A Since the Italians did not have anything to distribute, it was only logical that the Greeks approached us and asked us to help them however much we could which we did with pleasure.
Q If you as a German official concerned yourself with the food situation in Athens did you do something then which really did not fall into your sphere of work?
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
A Principally, it was started in the directives which we received from Berlin that every occupation power looked after its own zone of occupation. In that case we would have gotten off very favorably because the Salonika zone was easier to supply from Bulgaria than was the area down in Southern Greece and, apart from Crete and a few islands, all we had were the few villages around Athens; but on our initiative in agreement with the Greeks we said we couldn't really do that from a sense of moral obligation and we found understanding and we received promises which, however, later on -- I believe in October 1941 -- were mysteriously and suddenly stopped by a directive from Ribbentrop and then, as I stated yesterday, a communication of Field Marshal List gave me the possibility and opportunity to make representation in Berlin with the competent agencies and get promises for further distributions of supplies.
Q In the time period mentioned up until the middle of 1942 did you have any knowledge that there were recruitments for forced labor in Greece.
A No, that was not the case. Once or twice there were recruitments for such work.
DR. MENZEL: I thank you.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION DR. GUENTHER ALTENBURG BY DR. WEISBERGER (For defendant Speidel):
Q Dr. Altenburg, during your stay in Greece and during your diplomatic assignment in Athens, did you manage to get any insight into the organization of the agency of the Military Commander for Greece?
A Military Commander Southern Greece, you mean?
Q Yes.
A He was the territorial commander.
Q I see. Did you manage to get any closer insight into the organization and the area of his jurisdiction and of the way in which his area of jurisdiction was organized?
A Those were mainly purely military questions, where I could not say in every individual case, that this is now the military commander, the territorial commander, or rather, this is the tactical commander in some other case. Where the civilian is concerned, this overlapped quite often.
Q How often did you talk to General Schimana?
A On very few occasions in Athens, but in Freising where we were detained together, I talked to him more frequently. Altogether, I believe twice in Athens when he arrived there, and made a visit. That was toward the end of October, and then a few days later, I invited him.
Q On these two occasions did you discuss with Schimana his position, his sphere of competency in any detail?
AAs is usual, he arrived and said that he was Strobe's successor as higher SS and Police Leader, and as is customary on such visits we did not discuss anything in great detail. He was, of course, in his assignment, for tactical purposes, subordinate to the Military Commander.
Thai is quite obvious.
Q Did he tell you the latter?
A I will have to say this - this conversation took place in the fall of 1943. Then in 1945, General Schimana and I met again in Freising in the attic of the barracks, and now after two years later it is very difficult for me to say what I heard now, and what the situation was in detail.
With the best will in the world, that is not possible after all one has gone through during these last years, and I do not want to commit myself, I have no intention to skate on thin ice, I am glad, of course, to clear anything up for you, but that is a bit too much.
Q Could you possibly tell this Tribunal whether you had any exact, official knowledge about the position and sphere of competency of the Higher SS and Police Leader of Greece?
A Could you give me the question again, please?
Q Could you possibly tell this Tribunal now whether at the time, I mean during your stay in Athens, you had exact official knowledge about the position and the sphere of competency of the Higher SS and Police Leader in Greece.
A To the best of my recollection concerning Strobe, police matters were the decisive factor.
Q Whether the Higher SS and Police Leader in police matters was subordinate to the Military Commander, Greece - was this subject discussed between you and Schimana?
A You mean the limitation of the sphere of competency?
Q Yes.
A It was my impression that nobody was really very clear about this, if you want to know exactly what my impression was.
Q Can you tell us today how long you were in Athens in the fall of 1943?
A I left by air on the 3rd of November.
Q I see.
A In October I was not there except for the last few days, and in September I was not there, with the exception of one week. The last weeks of August I was not there either. In June and July I was away for some time. In March, April and May also, and also the last days of February.
Q In that event you could not tell us either, could you, whether during that period from the beginning of September until the time when you left, reprisal measures of the Military Commander or of the Higher SS and Police Leader were carried out.
A In September? No, I am afraid I cannot tell you that.
Q You mentioned yesterday that General Speidel, on the occasion of the second incident mentioned by you, did not carry out reprisal measures on the basis of your representations?
A I would like to say, in order not to exaggerate my position, it was not I alone who talked to the General, but there was also the Prime Minister Rallas, who talked to him at that time; also the Archbishop, although I am not quite sure whether he talked to him, but I believe I can recall that the Prime Minister Rallas did talk to him.
Q Can you tell us whether in that particular case reprisal measures had already been ordered?
A They were planned.
Q I beg your pardon?
A They were planned; they were a project.
Q And how did you get information of this intention, of this plan?
A Through the Greeks. It was like this, as a rule. Relatives would approach the Government, and the Government in turn would inform me, and then I would make an inquiry and find out what the situation was.
Q Did the relatives also approach the Greek Government or you if anybody had only been arrested?
A Yes, then too. It is only logical that in any dangerous situation everybody tries to help their family - the members of their family.
Q And you deduct from the fact that Greek families made representations to the Greek government on behalf of members of their families that reprisal measures were planned?
A There can be no doubt about that. That was confirmed to me in a conver in a conversation also.
Q And whether they were ordered; do you know that?
A Then we have to clarify what you mean by ordered. That was only the actual situation, which was still outstanding. The question was whether some people were to be shot or not. If you want to call it orders, then it was ordered. I call it intended.
Q What you want to say is that in this second incident which you mentioned to the best of your recollection, the carrying out of this reprisal order had already been ordered?
A It was to take place the next day, or the next but one day.
Q And which was the authority that gave you the information that this reprisal measure had already been ordered?
A The Greeks told me, that tomorrow or the next day some people were intended to be shot.
Q You base your statement only on information which you received from Greeks?
A In this case that was the situation. In the other case, from June, 1942, which I mentioned, the case with General Andre, in that case I was informed by the Charge deAffairs, Sofia by a telegram.
Q You can't remember all of the details of this second incident of summer of 1943?
A No, I am afraid I cannot. I could not even tell you exactly what the cause was for that measure, whether there was a surprise attack on an ambulance company or an explosion in Piraeus. I cannot even tell you what the cause was. It was impossible -
DR. WEISBERGER: Thank you. No further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Are there other defense counsel who wish to ask any re-direct questions of this witness?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If Your Honor please -
THE PRESIDENT: Apparently not. You may continue with such re-cross examination as may be pertinent to the matters which have just been presented.